Scots pistol, flintlock, reproduction

[Graywolf]

One thing, if you drill the vent hole, then be careful of where you take them. It is my understanding, and this was a conversation with a Canadian border official, if its a working pistol, flintlock or not, it can be a concealed weapon in Canada.

[Woodsheal]

One thing, if you drill the vent hole, then be careful of where you take them. It is my understanding, and this was a conversation with a Canadian border official, if its a working pistol, flintlock or not, it can be a concealed weapon in Canada.

Maybe in Canada, but not in the USA. Here, weapons manufactured prior to 1898, or replicas thereof, are NOT classed as firearms under federal law, but rather as antiques or collectibles. Flintlocks, functional or not, do not fall under any federal restrictions....

[Piper]

Maybe in Canada, but not in the USA. Here, weapons manufactured prior to 1898, or replicas thereof, are NOT classed as firearms under federal law, but rather as antiques or collectibles. Flintlocks, functional or not, do not fall under any federal restrictions....

That can vary with location. Down here in the Duchy of Corzine only actual antiques are excempt from the regulations. State regulations place a replica Murdoch flintlock pistol under the same restrictions as a modern semi-auto. I'm not personally aware of anyone having a problem as a result of this, but it would only take one enthusiastic official to make life complicated. This is another area where it would be wise to order it undrilled.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Maybe in Canada, but not in the USA. Here, weapons manufactured prior to 1898, or replicas thereof, are NOT classed as firearms under federal law, but rather as antiques or collectibles. Flintlocks, functional or not, do not fall under any federal restrictions....

Actually, only original firearms manufactured prior to 1896 were exempted from the Gun Control Act of 1968, however this is not the only law affecting the sale and transportation of replica firearms in the United States.

Generally speaking, those replicas which fire fixed ammunition (what we commonly refer to as "cartridges") are classified as "modern" firearms and are subject to full compliance with all US federal regulation.

Those replicas which fire loose ammunition (propellant and projectile not contained in a fixed casing [a cartridge]), such as flintlock and cap lock rifles and pistols, are treated somewhat differently under federal regulations, but are still subject to all applicable city and state ordinances.

If you are just getting into historical reenacting, and as part of your period costume you will be carrying a firearm-- of any era-- then you would be well advised to seek out the advice of others, in your specific local, as to what is-- and is not-- lawful.

[Graywolf]

Correct and that was the intent of my warning. If you are re-enacting, then research and know the regulations of any locality, state, province, and/or nation to which you are going.

Spending an evening in jail, paying a fine, or just confiscation of the item can put a damper on the joys of re-enacting.

[Woodsheal]

That can vary with location. Down here in the Duchy of Corzine only actual antiques are excempt from the regulations. State regulations place a replica Murdoch flintlock pistol under the same restrictions as a modern semi-auto. I'm not personally aware of anyone having a problem as a result of this, but it would only take one enthusiastic official to make life complicated. This is another area where it would be wise to order it undrilled.

Right, and I agree with Scott as well. I was refering to the Federal level. There are a gazillion state and local ordinances and laws which come into play (I'm from New York; I KNOW!)....

Anyways, this thread has served it's purpose re: the repro Scots dag. Before it degenerates into a discussion of the ins and outs of firearms laws, perhaps it can be given the deep six....

[BoldHighlander]

Just for comparison sake I thought I'd post pictures of a couple of original Scottish pistols.
The first one is an engraved pair of Murdoch-made pistols that were presented to Joseph Brant:



from the Royal Ontario Museum Website:
The two pistols are provided with grips that terminate in classic examples of the so-called ram’s-horn or scroll butt. This type of design was prevalent in the Scottish Highlands in the second half of the 18th century. The signature refers to Thomas Murdoch, born in Doune, Scotland, and baptized there in 1735. The Murdochs were a family of gunsmiths. According to the ROM’s accession files, these pistols were made for the Duke of Northumberland. According to tradition, the Duke presented the pistols to Joseph Brant of the Six Nations (Haudenosaunee) in 1791. The engraved, inlaid silver decoration includes details of a ducal crest with the letter “N” and the curious inscription “GUINEAS”. Steel-hilted belt pistols, like these two by Thomas Murdoch, formed a unique facet of Scottish gunsmithing. Scottish steel-hilted pistols, which featured engraved inlay in silver, were unique, and during the 18th century were without parallel elsewhere in Britain or in Continental Europe. The two pistols were purchased for the ROM in 1924 from Miss W. M. Cartwright. According to the ROM’s records, the items bought from Miss Cartwright formed part of the Joseph Brant Collection. As a gift from the Duke of Northumberland to Joseph Brant, the two pistols fall into the realm of presentation pieces associated with high levels of international diplomacy. Gifts of engraved firearms were sometimes exchanged among foreign rulers as marks of respect or to commemorate treaties and alliances.

The second is of an earlier period (1670) w/ a Snaphaunce lock:

[Bigkahuna]

You would probably be safe carrying them unloaded. Once you load them however, they become like any other handgun and subject to the same laws.

[BoldHighlander]

Here's another original all-metal Scottish pistol I'm adding for comparison sake. It's listed as a "17th century Jacobite pistol", courtesy of the Dicks Institute.

[JRB]

Is there any evidence of an historic all steel Scottish pistol that was not etched or otherwise heavily decorated (like all of the replicas)?