formal jackets and the cookie cutter aversion

[MacLowlife]

Thanks for the warning about the velvet, Bugbear, I try not to be alone in a room with it and I keep a whip and a chair handy at all times.

OK, Here is what I (believe) I know about doublets:

1) Montrose= Double breasted, worn with a jabot and maybe belt, but no flaps ( Military collar )
2) Sherrifmuir= Buttons only at the top, flares out towards waist, worn with a waistcoat
3) Kenmore= Single breasted, worn with a jabot, has flaps ( and military collar )
4) Mystery doublet, probably BALMORAL , has flaps and lapels
http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Balmo...t_Doublet.html

The trick about the Balmoral is that it seems to be wearable either with lapels or quite possibly with the collar turned up. Similarly, it can take a belt or can be worn open, in which case it greatly resembles the regulation doublet. Smarter men than I can probably post a handy doublet recognition chart.

(In which case, we would have to include #5, the Regulation and possibly ( hisssss) #6, the much rented PC[ )

Who will provide us with said chart? And who can offer illustrated suggestions on other velvet confections?

[MacLowlife]

The poll thread is great, but many of the images have been removed or are unavailable. Thanks, Bugbear, for the link, just the same.

[Jock Scot]

Thanks for the warning about the velvet, Bugbear, I try not to be alone in a room with it and I keep a whip and a chair handy at all times.

OK, Here is what I (believe) I know about doublets:

1) Montrose= Double breasted, worn with a jabot and maybe belt, but no flaps ( Military collar )
2) Sherrifmuir= Buttons only at the top, flares out towards waist, worn with a waistcoat
3) Kenmore= Single breasted, worn with a jabot, has flaps ( and military collar )
4) Mystery doublet, probably BALMORAL , has flaps and lapels
http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Balmo...t_Doublet.html

The trick about the Balmoral is that it seems to be wearable either with lapels or quite possibly with the collar turned up. Similarly, it can take a belt or can be worn open, in which case it greatly resembles the regulation doublet. Smarter men than I can probably post a handy doublet recognition chart.

(In which case, we would have to include #5, the Regulation and possibly ( hisssss) #6, the much rented PC[ )

Who will provide us with said chart? And who can offer illustrated suggestions on other velvet confections?

As much as I hate throwing a spanner into the works of your well oiled machine, be warned! Not all tailors in Scotland and perhaps the world for all I know, call their jackets by the same name and some call their jackets by a name that might say to you in your minds eye one thing and they will mean a completely different style that you also think you have in your minds eye. I dare not give you an example in case I confuse you even more!MAKE SURE YOU SEE A PICTURE.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

As much as I hate throwing a spanner into the works of your well oiled machine, be warned! Not all tailors in Scotland and perhaps the world for all I know, call their jackets by the same name and some call their jackets by a name that might say to you in your minds eye one thing and they will mean a completely different style that you also think you have in your minds eye. I dare not give you an example in case I confuse you even more!MAKE SURE YOU SEE A PICTURE.

At one time Mr. Geoffrey the Tailor called his double breasted Montrose a doublet, and the single breasted Kenmore, a singlet.

Imagine that, going to the ball in your kilt and singlet...

[MacLowlife]

MAKE SURE YOU SEE A PICTURE.
Reply With Quote

worth a thousand words, they say. Let's have 'em...

[MacLowlife]

Ted Crocker,

I just read your thread on jacket backs from April. Thank you. I believe you were referring to what they sometimes call a bi-swing, or action back- shooting coats and safari jackets sometimes have pleats behind the shoulders which allow fabric to pull out when needed, as when the wearer raises his arms to fire a shotgun. I believe the fabric returns (the pleat closes) based either on gravity or because of elastic strung between the pleats. If that is too complicated, one could probably find a jacket with a single inverted back pleat in the center, ( much like a box pleat on a kilt?) that would serve the same purpose. http://www.alexander-james.co.uk/arc...ducts/shooting . No rear views, unfortunately- just order a couple and see how they are put together. If you went with a contrasting color and maybe some piping, it could either look very smart or downright horrendous.

[Bugbear]

I refined that pleating to where it basically replaced the side vents on the sport jacket to kilt jacket conversion. That would be the jackets that have an Argyle bottom and cutaway.

So if I were to do another conversion, there would be no open side vents, and no need for the panel of fabric behind the vent. Also, the pleating takes in the waist to make the sport jacket fit more like a kilt jacket. I also put a bit of hair canvas in the flap that is formed by the pleats, parallel to the hem, so it keeps it's crisp shape.

All of that was practice for if I found a jacket that would be suitable for a semi-formal jacket. I never found a black, pin wale corduroy jacket, but there is a very nice tuxedo jacket hanging in my closet, if I ever get the jacket conversion bug again.

Good luck.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

That doublet is pretty much the basic "regulation doublet." Just a few bits added for a piper, and slightly different tailoring and button placement, but nonetheless aregulation doublet.

I've seen these jackets in old pictures as well and hadn't realized that it was an older, different style of regulation doublet. It looks like a cross between a Sheriffmuir and what many sites sell now that they call a regulation doublet. The current offering of regulation doublets I see look like a PC with Argyll cuffs and Inverness flaps/taches sewn on to it.

I really like this older style regulation doublet. Without the piping on the edges and shoulder shells it would look outstanding for evening wear today.

[OC Richard]

That doublet is pretty much the basic "regulation doublet." Just a few bits added for a piper, and slightly different tailoring and button placement, but nonetheless aregulation doublet.

I respectfully disagree.

The doublets they make nowadays share the gauntlet/Argyll cuffs and Inverness tashes/flaps but are completely different in the collar treatment, overall shape, and trim style.

These jackets by the way usually don't have the Musician's Shells, but pipers are seen wearing the shells sometimes.

Here's the earliest image I can find of this jacket style, from 1865:



Some more photos showing this style. Note that the jacket is pretty much the same as a "military style" doublet but with an open collar (as opposed to a Prince Charlie jacket with cuffs and flaps stuck on).