Looking for Info re: Kilts and US Army formal/uniform req.

[dead_possum]

So I looked through the various 'mass-o-threads' hear and on other sites and was wondering if there were any guidelines as to how (if possible) and when a Kilt may be worn at an US Army event. As of this point I have only seen hints as to individuals pulling off Kilts at Formal/Semi-Formal Events, but nothing hard fact. Can someone point me in the right direction.

My reasons are that I would like to pick up a full traditional kit with the 'army tartan' but don't want to drop all that money and not be able to where it to social events that would be considered 'work related'.

any and all help is appreciated.

[thescot]

If you're in the Army-the Ft. Benning address is a clue; I'm a real detective--I would hazard a guess that the kilt is never allowed for anything where a uniform is required. However, I would think that if civilian attire is OK, you can wear a kilt, trousers, or even a dress. (Keep away from the dress. Trust me on this one.)

If you are either retired or a civilian, you can probably wear whatever you want, and an Army tartan at Ft. Benning would likely be as well received as any tartan kilt would be. Rogerson and few others could give you some good advice. Being a Marine, my Army first-hand knowledge is somewhat limited.

Let us know what you decide and buy. And remember that photos are required. i see that as I wrete this, it's your first post. You might do the new comer thing and let us know more about you and your situation so we can be of more assistance.

[thescot]

Duplicate post. My computer went crazy.

[longhuntr74]

Possum,
Firstly, welcome to the forum. There are a great deal of current, prior, and retired military on this forum from several different countries. You are among friends.

Regarding your question on rules about the kilt, etc. There are absolutely NO provisions allowing the wear of "the kilt" to a US Army official function (I guess I should end that sentence with the words "that I am aware of"...but I believe it to be absolutely truthful without that caveat). AR670-1 does not authorize the wearing of non-regulation garments such as the kilt with the uniform (though I think the mess dress jacket would look superb with a kilt). There are several other threads here where you will find spirited debate about bending the rules, etc. Some here don't see it as a big deal. Others feel that part of the prestige and professionalism of the military is strict adherance to uniform standards, etc. I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. I don't think I would wear a kilt to an official function where I'm expected to be uniformed. I would definitely wear a formal kilt outfit with mini-medals to a military event or other social event if I were not required to wear my uniform (ie...a non-unit event). I hope that answers your question. Feel free to hit me up via PM or pose further questions on here and I'll do my best to answer them with facts and my opinion as a field grade officer (for what it's worth!)

[The Wizard of BC]

a PDF copy of the US Army regulation AR670-1 can be found here.

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ar670-1.pdf

Please see AR 670-1 1-10 1
(1) The wear of a combination of civilian and military clothing is prohibited, unless prescribed in this regulation or other authorization documents approved by HQDA.

The US Army Tartan is listed with the Scottish Tartans Authourity as ITI # 6307. Designed in 2004 by Strathmore Woolen Co. and is not recognized or authorized for wear by the U.S. Army.

[slohairt]

Good advice given here all around. You also might want to consider than many members here are citizens of countries whose armed forces do wear the kilt as part of their uniform. (UK, Canada, Australia, etc.). Some may not like seeing a kilt (of any tartan) combined with a uniform that they feel it doesn't belong with. On the other hand, some don't care at all.

[fluter]

from South Carolina.

If an event permits either uniform or formal civilian attire, then the kilt and Prince Charlie is your substitute for black tie/tux. I believe that's how it's worn to some military functions where civyy black tie is an option.

See our colleague Rogerson here: Ft. Riley Signal Ball 2008

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

AR670-1 is very clear on this subject, and I follow the regs. If I am attending a formal military function, I wear my US Army mess dress. If I am attending a formal civilian function I wear civilian attire. As a matter of principle I never wear my mess kit to a civilian function.

In my entire life I have only once broken with this self-imposed rule. Four years ago I received an invitation to a private, white tie, function in London. The invitation said "white tie, uniform, decorations". Two quick telephone calls and it was revealed that the event was being covertly underwritten by the Syrian government.

So, of course, I wore my US Army mess uniform to this otherwise civilian event. The only other uniform present that evening was worn by a brigadier in the British Army and, as it turned out, for exactly the same reasons.

Some times we are not "two nations separated" by anything at all.

[longhuntr74]

from South Carolina.

If an event permits either uniform or formal civilian attire, then the kilt and Prince Charlie is your substitute for black tie/tux. I believe that's how it's worn to some military functions where civyy black tie is an option.

Prince Charlie will work...but I'm partial to the Regulation Doublet myself...either is appropriate for black tie or white tie, depending on accessories. But Fluter is correct...it would have to specify civilian attire accepted. Most official functions in the military require a prescribed uniform for members of that organization. Now if you were attending as a spouse to your wife's function (assuming she was military...there are lots of dual mil couples out there...but likely not your case), then you'd have the choice to wear appropriate formal attire of your choosing.

[dead_possum]

If you're in the Army-the Ft. Benning address is a clue; I'm a real detective--.....

yes, attending OCS

However, I would think that if civilian attire is OK, you can wear a kilt, trousers, or even a dress. (Keep away from the dress. Trust me on this one.)

... that one made me laugh, you would think that it would not need to be said, but then again the world if full of stupid people. Before posting I did look at the AR670-1 and found that it was rather unforgiving on the kilt allowance as part of the uniform. Which is fine as rules are setup for reasons and my Army Career is a bit too young to be trying to bend or test gray areas yet. I think that MacMillan stated it best "If I am attending a formal military function, I wear my US Army mess dress. If I am attending a formal civilian function I wear civilian attire." as I translate the 'civilian attire' to mean Kilt and I was thinking that it would be kilt plus Prince Charlie to prevent the mix/partial uniform issue.