Slightly confused.

[thescot]

Girl pipers are cool.

Well, no offense, but they're sure a lot prettier than you other guys, Jock.

I agree with you completely.

But--to Dirka's original ovservation--Scotty Thompson pointed out in So You're Going to Wear . . . that the average difference between the waist and hip measure of a woman is substantially more than a man. That means that a true kilt does not fit a woman like it does an man, and--quite often--just doesn't look good.

Having said that, the point of the women in kilts is uniformity, and they do get that.

But personally, I like the big difference! Vive la difference!

[Am Bàrd]

Yep.



Both my parents are pipers and they both wear the same uniform when piping. I've actually not seen female pipers dress differently in all my years around pipe bands. I think it would strike me quite odd.

[Nighthawk]

That's odd... the very word "uniform" means "one form" so it's really an oxymoron to leave the uniform open. I guess a band like that couldn't really be said to possess a "uniform".

When I say "open" I mean that they have the option to wear the woman's equivalant of the mens uniform- long skirts, jabots, etc, instead of kilt and Prince Charlie.

[OC Richard]

Both my parents are pipers and they both wear the same uniform when piping. I've actually not seen female pipers dress differently in all my years around pipe bands. I think it would strike me quite odd.

But in that photo they ARE dressed differently: the woman is wearing a feminine blouse with lace jabot just like all the women in the photos of the "ladies" pipe bands I posted.

About the waist/hip differential yes indeed the kilts have to be made to fit everyone... here's a photo which clearly shows a woman's pipe band kilt from the rear:



By the way, in the photo above of the pipe band in full dress, it's odd that the tartan hose don't match the kilt at all. Those hose look like they're intended to go with a red/green tartan.

[duchessofnc]

I suspect the black velcro ankle brace is hers alone, though...

That's real class pointing out the ankle brace.

[Tiny]

That's real class pointing out the ankle brace.

His name is MacLowlife.

[Pleater]

Even within a uniform, just a slight alteration can make a difference in the effect whilst being difficult to define just what exactly what it is that does it.

When I was doing costumes for one Shakespear play - the one where a girl is shipwrecked and dresses to look like her brother, there was a problem because the two playing the roles of brother and sister were a very alike brother and sister - and the girlyest one was the man.

It was necessary to put the man into sturdy heeled boots, make the jacket longer and looser at the waist and put a quilted lining in the back and over the shoulders to beef him up, then narrow the waist and shoulders for the girl, make a softer rounded collar, daintify with lace edgings as otherwise it was difficult to tell the two apart - particularly at the dress rehersal when she'd had a cold and spoke gruffly.

Uniform - if cleverly done, can still show differences, it is just a matter of getting it right.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[HarborSpringsPiper]

I'm switching gears here a little bit but reading this thread and watching some of those film clips from the Scottish archives got me wondering about the changes that have occured with female Highland dancers' apparel. I've seen mentions of SCD on the site but don't recall much if any discussion about Highland dancing. Maybe there's a forum here I haven't looked at.

This is what I have been used to seeing since I got involved back in the early '70s and don't see it has changed much in the last 30 years, in N. America to my knowledge anyway. I know the local dance group still dresses like this, with a dancer's kilt, flap opening on the right, vest and no sporran.




As I was watching those old film clips, the thing that really struck me was all of the female dancers were wearing sporrans, hair sporrans at that. In addition, they were all dressed in full kit with doublets, short plaids and bonnets. I can understand that over time things have simplified to a vest and much of the rest was dropped. I never paid much attention to the old pictures of girls' sporrans though before, or that the girls' dancing kilt aprons open on the right.

I'm wondering if there are any dancers here who could comment on the change in attire that has occured. I think one of those clips was from the '60s showing the girls in full-attire including the sporrans in Scotland. I have no idea how quick the changes took place around the world, but I never saw that in my neck of the woods a few years after that was filmed. I guess it makes sense that the female dancing attire was originally patterned after or was a feminine version of men's Highland attire, as Highland dancing was originally a male activity.

As far as pipers, I never really questioned the same attire issue. When I started playing back then, I never ran across any of the female pipers in Michigan or Ontario wearing anything different than any of the guys in the bands. I always understood the kilt was a male garment, however, the concept of uniform seemed to trump that.

I knew quite a few female pipers back then, though they were in a clear minority. Interesting though that I ran into a woman who lives locally who teaches Highland dancing. I didn't know her very well in my youth but our paths had crossed. Her brother is a piper and she bemoaned that she never learned to play the pipes. She wanted to back then but her parents wouldn't let her because she was a girl, therefore she would dance. I think they still had some kind of an over the top "traditional" mindset, despite the fact we are talking about the early '70s. I think we're making some progress in the world.

[Tartan Shortbread Jock]

For the folk who like a big difference.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

Boys in troosers? Girls in skirts? What's that all about??? lol!