Two Plaids?

[IrishPiper]

Do you you think it's socially acceptable for the fly plaid to be the clan tartan and the kilt being the county tartan? I have done some research and everything I have found thus far shows the fly plaid being the same tartan as the kilt.

Any ideas?

[Ozman1944]

I vaguely recall seeing such a 'Mix' on someone famous in one of the posts; (Pic? Painting?) Help guys?

[dfmacliam]

I remember talk about mixing the tartans, but normally it was of the same clan, just different tartans.

[IrishPiper]

I remember talk about mixing the tartans, but normally it was of the same clan, just different tartans.

It is the same clan. The kilt is for the county the clan originates from whereas the fly plaid is the clan tartan. However, they are not the same color. The county tartan is my avatar and the clan tartan is mostly green.

[dfmacliam]

In my humble opinion, there should not be an issue, since its all relevent.. I am no expert, but feel the relevence would be accepted by most.

[Chas]

My understanding is that the tartans should be the same - the size of the set can vary and the tartan can be in the ancient/muted/modern colourways - but the two tartans should be the same.

Regards

Chas

[Chas]

Nowadays it is considered "correct" or acceptable to wear a kilt of one's clan tartan and a folded shoulder plaid of one's family or district tartan, for example. One should never mix "dress" tartan with any other tartan however. If you are wearing a kilt of your clan's dress tartan, then the belted plaid should be of the same tartan as the kilt.

I would totally disagree. Unless you can quote a source to the contrary, I will defer to Jock Scot. Surely your clan and family are the same thing!

Regards

Chas

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I think there are a few questions one should generally consider when asking questions like this.

1) Are there any established sartorial norms for this kind of thing?
2) Are there any historical precedents to consider?
3) Would it look good when worn?

In the case of wearing a plaid of one tartan and a kilt of another, the fairly obvious answer is that the two are generally worn of the same material. One would not have to look long, however, to find examples of the plaid and kilt being of the same tartan but different colors (Atholl Highlanders, for example).

Are there historical precedents? The previous poster mentioned that in the eighteenth century it was not uncommon at all to mix tartans in one outfit. However, as he himself stated, this was in an era before named tartans, and tartans were worn with a completely different mindset than today. I would also point out that the modern use of the plaid (in its many various forms) is meant to echo the older mode of dress, the feilidh-mor, in which case the plaid from knee to shoulder was of one piece. For this reason, the plaid in modern Highland dress would generally match the kilt.

Third, would it look good? Depends on the two tartans in question, I suppose. And the rest of the outfit. And how you carry yourself. This is, by and large, a matter of opinion.

However, I would advise to steer clear of rules that seem to have no real reason for existing, such as "it's ok to mix tartans, except for dress tartans." Why? If it's ok to mix tartans, why should dress tartans be any different than hunting tartans or regimental tartans or any other?

[IrishPiper]

thanks to all who have provided insight into this. definitely think uniformity is best.

[JSFMACLJR]

My authority for the rules pertaining to the wearing and mixing of various tartans comes from Sir Thomas Innes of Learney's "The Tartans of the Clans and Families of Scotland" (the late Sir Thomas was at the time Lord Lyon). On page 69 of his book in the chapter "The Highland Dress and How to Wear it" we read the following:

"Kilt.- If a member of a clan possessing one or more tartans, such as "clan," "hunting," or "dress," the person should wear one of his own tartans. On "dress occassions" the "dress" tartan is generally worn. If belonging to a sept of any clan, he should wear the tartan of the clan of which he is a sept; if the sept has a special tartan, he should wear it. When the wearer is entitled to both a "clan" and a "district" tartan it is admissible to wear a kilt and hose of the latter and a doublet or plaid of the former. It is not considered proper to combine either "clan" or "hunting" tartan with "dress" tartan. If one is to wear "dress" tartan, the kilt, plaid, and hose must be uniform."

So, there it is folks - straight from the Lyon's mouth.

As for clan and family tartans being one and the same, one can be a Brown (which has it's own tartan) and consider themselves to be a sept of Clan Lamont (which has a very different clan tartan all its own). In such a case, Mr. Brown would be perfectly proper wearing a kilt of the Brown family tartan and a folded shepherd's plaid of the Clan Lamont tartan. In some of the earlier editions of Robert Bain's "The Clans and Tartans of Scotland" there is an illustration designed to show contemporary Highland attire circa 1940 that has a gentleman wearing a kilt of Cameron of Lochiel tartan and a folded shoulder plaid of the Cameron of Erracht regimental tartan, which was perfectly acceptable.

As Innes of Learney wrote this not in his official capacity as Lyon, it has no "weight" of his office to support it.

As any heraldist knows, some of Sir Tam's theories were a bit "far-fetched"!