Two Plaids?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

As Innes of Learney wrote this not in his official capacity as Lyon, it has no "weight" of his office to support it.

As any heraldist knows, some of Sir Tam's theories were a bit "far-fetched"!

And, I think, the origin of some of the many "rules" of Highland dress.

For example, the origin of the so-called "dress" tartans was not in formal wear at all, but rather in 18th century lady's tartan fashion. Inned of Learney has been rather criticized in latter years as having really gone above and beyond tradition in dictating some of his sartorial tartan "rules."

[McClef]

I would agree that uniformity is best.

Occasionally there may be tartans that can compliment each other but expect they are relatively rare.

I only have 3 plaids and normally would not dream of not matching them with the kilt in the same tartan.

Apart from two years ago when I went to Cornwall and realised that although I had packed my Cornwall National plaid, I had, in a senior moment, forgotten to pack the Cornwall National kilt!

So, in order to honour the Cornish tartan, I allowed the plaid to "clash" with the kilt at a formal dinner (can't remember which it was now)! I am pleased to say that the Cornish tartan was recognised by the Cornish who saw it, however, and they were pleased that I had made the effort!

I am off to Cornwall again on Monday and this time have both the plaid and the kilt as well so no clashing and everything matching!

[Lyle1]

Does the Lord Lyon's authority extend to issues involving tartans? I thought that the Lord Lyon regulated issues involving heraldry.

I've read that in a discussion regarding which shoulder lades should wear tartan sashes, a recent Lord Lyon said that his office did not regulate the wearing of tartan and that in his opinion, ladies were free to wear sashes as the wished, despite a contrary opinion held by a previous Lord Lyon.

[beloitpiper]

I've always understood that tartans should be of the same clan, whether it be modern, ancient, etc. District tartans are not interchangeable with clan tartans.

[Bugbear]

I've always understood that tartans should be of the same clan, whether it be modern, ancient, etc. District tartans are not interchangeable with clan tartans.

Yes, that's what I have read over and over. I know very little outside of what I have read here on the forum.

Except, it goes further than that. I have read over and over, from several forum traditionalists, that the Scottish way is to wear one clan tartan, and only one clan tartan. It's not just about mixing tartans, from what I can tell it's about the spirit of the clan and the Highlands.

Wearing a kilt of one clan's tartan one day, then of another clan the next, or even a fashion tartan, is not well received from what I gather in reading traditionalists' posts.

I'm not sure I can ever fully know how that feels; there is no clan tartan for me. However, I do no what it feels like to have my tartan attacked and insulted. I can guess that wearing the two different tartans is a bit of an insult.

[ThistleDown]

The third type of plaid is a length of double-width tartan about 3-1/2 yards long, fringed on both ends, and usually worn folded to a quarter of its width lengthwise, then folded in half again on itself and carried on the left shoulder of the wearer for daytime/outdoor wear. This "shepherd's plaid" is the only type that is ever worn in a different sett or shade of tartan from the kilt.

Hmmmmm. I think I agree with you -- somewhat and sort of. The blanket sometimes called the "shepherds" and most often the "lairds" plaid was/is just a length of nice, warm, water-repellant stuff to drape over the shoulders when the rains come down. We have generally replaced that with much more efficient and effective fabrics, but on occasion it is still worn as it was -- dragged from the back of the sofa on the way out the door.

Invercauld didn't quite "drag" in this old photo of him, but the idea is there....

[ThistleDown]

Left: Alan Maclean of Dochgarroch; right: John Mackintosh of Mackintosh: Inverness Town House 2009



You will see the difference in their plaids, of course.

[Jock Scot]

I think some of us are falling into the trap of failing to distinguish the difference between theory and practice here. We can find a picture or two to justify our point of view; we can even find a hefty tome or two to justify whatever point of view we happen to have and there is no doubting that in this case it can be done. However, in practice, as in this case, things are not the same. It really has to be accepted that in Scotland plaids of any kind are not common(rare even) UNLESS you happen to be a member of a pipe band, Atholl Highlanders, or some such.The Scots do not often have a shelf full of books on the finer points of kilt wearing and even if they have(they have not by the way)they would not have read them! The lairds plaid is a slightly more common sight, usually(not always) when the Clan Chief(not limited to them ,though) is on public display at a games or, and I have to say it, when the Clan Chief is entertaining overseas visitors at the Clan gathering at the family seat. This does not mean that you can't wear a plaid if you wish. All I am saying is that common sense prevails and the plaid is not a regular piece of kilt attire in Scotland, these days. The mixing of tartans of different Clans is not done. Getting back to the original question, wearing a district tartan kilt and a Clan plaid would be unusual(few would recognise a district tartan anyway),but not "wrong".

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Does the Lord Lyon's authority extend to issues involving tartans? I thought that the Lord Lyon regulated issues involving heraldry.

I've read that in a discussion regarding which shoulder lades should wear tartan sashes, a recent Lord Lyon said that his office did not regulate the wearing of tartan and that in his opinion, ladies were free to wear sashes as the wished, despite a contrary opinion held by a previous Lord Lyon.

That "previous Lord Lyon" was Thomas Innes of Learney, as a matter of fact; and it would seem that this whole "ladies must wear their sashes on the right shoulder unless they are chiefs, chief's wives, country dancers, etc." can be traced back to him.

See my article on the subject:
http://albanach.org/sash.htm

It would seem that earlier sources advocate ladies wearing the sash on the left shoulder, which makes much more sense.

Yet another example of Learney introducing "rules and regulations" regarding wearing the tartan, where none were really needed.

No matter what you think the Lord Lyon's proper jurisdiction may be, it most certainly does not extend to ladies' fashion! :-)

[Lyle1]

Sir Thomas Innes of Learney certainly thought his authority extended to all sorts of issues beyond heraldry: "such as his right to decide disputes over chiefships of clans or branches of clans, his right to decide disputes of precedence, his right to confer nobility to non-physical persons such as corporations or associations, etc. These rights are still (2007) being exercised by the Court of the Lord Lyon." - source: Wikipedia

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