Highlanders Discuss Highland Attire

[Redshank]

As I see it Kilt wearers fall into distinct categories here in Scotland

1) The Old School - staunch traditionalist, Me and Jock for example, we know how to and more to the point when to wear the kilt, to us the kilt is everything, but not everything, we wear tweed jackets, coloured hose, balmoral bonnets, shirt and tie, we are comfortable wearing it, we are not self concious, to us it's just a way of dressing, we even have hand me down ancestral kilts and accessories.

2) The New School - Traditionalist with a modern flare, Paul and Cessna fall into this category, they love to wear the kilt in a traditional manner but aren't afriad to try something different, modern multi coloured boots, contemporary kilts etc, they know how to wear the kilt, are comfortable wearing the kilt, keen to expand and improve their kilt collections and accessories.

3) The Hire School - Non kilt owning wearers, traditional in the hire shop sense of the word, white hose, ghillie brogues, ill fitting kilt, dress sporran for daywear, pc jacket, they will wear the kilt for special occassions, graduations, weddings etc, they may eventually go onto buy their own kilt and after a few years, then learn that they didn't actually know it all when their interest takes them into the real world of kilting.

4) The Desperate School - So desperate are these folk to own a kilt that they go to a food chain store and buy a complete kilt outfit for £1.99, they wear it to every possible event, the pub, the rugby, weddings, funerals, they put on weight or the kilt shrinks, they then take it to the nearest kilt makers for adjustment, are shocked to find the adjustment charge is more than they paid for the kilt, so they don't pay and just go back to the food store and buy a bigger £1.99 kilt, they think they look great, in reality they look like the sacks of potato's in the foodstore.

that's basically my take on it, you will however note the abscence of measurement, here in Scotland the 8 yard knife pleat is king, you wont find 4 and 5 yard box pleats, you wont find contemporary kilts, except in Edinburgh, and he is away on holiday most of the time or so it would appear from reports on here, but you will see far too often white hose, ghillie brogues and dress sporrans at highland games, daytime weddings ceilidh's, to re-iterate, there are those in the know, and those who haven't a clue except whatthe rental man tells them.

[Phil]

As I see it Kilt wearers fall into distinct categories here in Scotland

1) The Old School - staunch traditionalist, Me and Jock for example,
2) The New School - Traditionalist with a modern flare (flair?), Paul and Cessna
3) The Hire School - Non kilt owning wearers

4) The Desperate School

you wont find contemporary kilts, except in Edinburgh, and he is away on holiday most of the time or so it would appear from reports on here .... there are those in the know, and those who haven't a clue except what the rental man tells them.

I would cut that down to two categories, those that own their own kilt and those who hire one now and again. The people who own one usually have one that fits properly and know how to wear it. The others are a mixed bunch, some know somebody to keep them right and the rest - well we know about them don't we? And isn't it nice to be able to look down our noses at all those poor unfortunates who know no better?

[Jock Scot]

Well said Chris. Your categories are so right. I think that the hire companies are largely responsible for the eroding of highland attire dress standards. In my book' they should be offering to educate those that could welcome some guidance as part of their service.It seems they don't care and the making of money for the least effort and consideration is all they are interested in.

As for the last group, well, there is no hope for them. It makes me cringe, it used to make me angry, now I can't be bothered with them-------do I like it? No I damn well don't.

[creagdhubh]

Well said Chris. Your categories are so right. I think that the hire companies are largely responsible for the eroding of highland attire dress standards. In my book' they should be offering to educate those that could welcome some guidance as part of their service.It seems they don't care and the making of money for the least effort and consideration is all they are interested in.

As for the last group, well, there is no hope for them. It makes me cringe, it used to make me angry, now I can't be bothered with them-------do I like it? No I damn well don't.

I completely agree Jock.

[creagdhubh]

As I see it Kilt wearers fall into distinct categories here in Scotland

1) The Old School - staunch traditionalist, Me and Jock for example, we know how to and more to the point when to wear the kilt, to us the kilt is everything, but not everything, we wear tweed jackets, coloured hose, balmoral bonnets, shirt and tie, we are comfortable wearing it, we are not self concious, to us it's just a way of dressing, we even have hand me down ancestral kilts and accessories.

2) The New School - Traditionalist with a modern flare, Paul and Cessna fall into this category, they love to wear the kilt in a traditional manner but aren't afriad to try something different, modern multi coloured boots, contemporary kilts etc, they know how to wear the kilt, are comfortable wearing the kilt, keen to expand and improve their kilt collections and accessories.

3) The Hire School - Non kilt owning wearers, traditional in the hire shop sense of the word, white hose, ghillie brogues, ill fitting kilt, dress sporran for daywear, pc jacket, they will wear the kilt for special occassions, graduations, weddings etc, they may eventually go onto buy their own kilt and after a few years, then learn that they didn't actually know it all when their interest takes them into the real world of kilting.

4) The Desperate School - So desperate are these folk to own a kilt that they go to a food chain store and buy a complete kilt outfit for £1.99, they wear it to every possible event, the pub, the rugby, weddings, funerals, they put on weight or the kilt shrinks, they then take it to the nearest kilt makers for adjustment, are shocked to find the adjustment charge is more than they paid for the kilt, so they don't pay and just go back to the food store and buy a bigger £1.99 kilt, they think they look great, in reality they look like the sacks of potato's in the foodstore.

that's basically my take on it, you will however note the abscence of measurement, here in Scotland the 8 yard knife pleat is king, you wont find 4 and 5 yard box pleats, you wont find contemporary kilts, except in Edinburgh, and he is away on holiday most of the time or so it would appear from reports on here, but you will see far too often white hose, ghillie brogues and dress sporrans at highland games, daytime weddings ceilidh's, to re-iterate, there are those in the know, and those who haven't a clue except whatthe rental man tells them.

I am amongst your ranks for option number one! Sometimes I see where the future of Highland dress is going, and I count my blessings that I am stuck in the past, and I am only 28 years old! Where did this knowledge and appreciation for the old school, traditional ways of wearing Highland attire come from? One answer, my grandfather, Lewis H. Macpherson Sr..

[CMcG]

As I see it Kilt wearers fall into distinct categories here in Scotland

1) The Old School - staunch traditionalist, Me and Jock for example, we know how to and more to the point when to wear the kilt, to us the kilt is everything, but not everything, we wear tweed jackets, coloured hose, balmoral bonnets, shirt and tie, we are comfortable wearing it, we are not self concious, to us it's just a way of dressing, we even have hand me down ancestral kilts and accessories.

<snip>

I am amongst your ranks for option number one! Sometimes I see where the future of Highland dress is going, and I count my blessings that I am stuck in the past, and I am only 28 years old! Where did this knowledge and appreciation for the old school, traditional ways of wearing Highland attire come from? One answer, my grandfather, Lewis H. Macpherson Sr..

creagdhubh, you obviously have strong Highland connections but I'm a little confused by your claim to be amongst the ranks of Redshanks' category #1. Are you born and raised in the Highlands and only recently moved to Missouri? Or are you an American with a Highlander grandfather? Just to clarify and with no disrespect intended...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

*****

[MacRobert's Reply]

Sorry that my contribution to this thread is so late - work got in the way. I recognise the observant and insightful descriptions by Jock, Redshank, Phil and others, and I particularly enjoyed CMcG's anthropological analysis. There is little of substance that I can add but here are a few reflections on my own wearing of the kilt and what I have observed in Scotland.

I was about three years old when I got my first kilt. It was in ancient hunting Robertson and I remember the delight of my parents at its swing. A wee balmoral bonnet followed. At about 12 or 13 another kilt in ancient hunting Robertson was made for me and I inherited an ancient dress (red) Robertson kilt from a cousin. The latter, worn for weddings and other posh occasions in the evening with a wee white hair sporran, a black velvet Montrose doublet and lace jabot and cuffs, was very warm (even before the days of central heating). The hunting (green) Robertson with tweed Argyle jacket and waistcoat (antler buttons and epaulettes but a single button only on the cuffs) was worn for smart rather than posh events such as church on Sunday or with a Scout shirt as part of the uniform. This was worn with a plain brown leather sporran but I don't remember any of us boys having a kilt belt, other than the belt worn with Scout uniform. Shoes were the same black or brown leather ones we wore with other formal clothes.

Kilts and jackets never get too small (Why do people say they do?) but boys do grow too large for them. So by the time I was in my 20s nothing fitted. When I got married at the end of the 1960s, it was not in the kilt as my father had done. Few did at this time and the cost was prohibitive. Some years later, however, I had a kilt made in modern dress (red) Robertson (which I still wear) and bought an off-the-peg black barathea Argyle jacket (with PC cuffs), black belt with 'silver' buckle and (I confess, on the advice of the tailor) a pair of black gillie brogues. With a limited budget and growing family this did for both day and occasional evening (black tie) wear. I was over dressed using it for day wear and under dressed for black-tie events but it was adequate during 16 years living and working in England, attending Burns' suppers and Hogmanay back in Scotland, and it was what I could afford at the time. My kilt pin was my father's old silver clan badge (with one letter of the motto missing).

Back in Scotland after 16 years in England, my son started attending weddings as a guest. My one kilt and jacket became a shared family resource! So, with increasing financial prosperity, I had ancient hunting Robertson kilts made for both of us (my son's as a birthday present). As with the previous kilt, I only remember the tailor offering two options: 13oz or 16oz weight. 8 yards was assumed as was knife pleating to the set. Although we are two different generations we both have tweed Argyle jackets with antler buttons, epaulettes and gauntlet cuffs. His attitude to gillie brogues was (with no influence fro his father), "I don't want those shoes with laces that go up your legs." He chose tan semi-brogues for smart day events such as weddings but prefers to dress down with brown leather trainers. He has no white hose, I do but only for unkilted wear with wellington boots!

With increasing prosperity and 40 years of gradually acquiring the 'right gear' I am able to dress for the occasion. For me, kilted day wear is hunting Robertson kilt, tweed Argyle jacket with brown or tan leather sporran and belt with brass buckle plate (or dark green wool waistcoat) and brown or black brogues (not gillies). Hose is plain green or blue.

For evening (black tie) events it's red Robertson kilt, black velvet Sheriffmuir doublet and waistcoat (or 'white silk' waistcoat or old green brocade waistcoat that are much cooler) usually with a black bow tie but I also have a highland cravat (tied with a coachman's knot). Sporran is usually grey sealskin with a silver-plated cantle; hose in black or tartan with black brogues.

I rarely wear the black Argyle jacket now since there are few formal events in the morning (requiring morning dress) but it served well as an acceptable compromise when I had four dependent mouths to feed.

In answer to David's specifics:
- I have two wearable kilts and one old deconstructed one to provide material for my grandson's first two (and perhaps three) kilts
- Hunting (green) Robertson for day wear and dress (red) Robertson for formal evening (black tie) wear but either kilt would do fine for both
- both are 16oz and 8 yards
- Kilt pins are my fathers old silver clan badge, a sword and miniature clan badge in pewter (a gift from work colleagues) and a silver celtic cross in Orcadian silver
- Both kilts are pleated to the set
-Both worn with a waistcoat or belt - brown or tan with brass buckle for day wear; black and silver in the evening (but I rarely wear the latter as the doublet is best with a waistcoat)
Both kilts are fairly modern and have belt loops which I use

Others have described and even produced typologies of how the kilt is worn in Scotland. These concur with my observations. However, every journey starts with a single step. The first time many Scots will wear a kilt, it will be from a hire shop with white hose, gillie brogues and PC during the day. IMHO a great first step! The boy friends of my two younger daughters, one Scottish, the other English, joined our family for Hogmanay in Argyle this year. Both hired and wore kilts for the first time (with hire shop white hose and gillie brogues) and I was absolutely delighted! Not because of the white hose and gillies but in spite of them!

Scots who buy kilts and full-dress sporrans for their weddings ofter turn up in them at rugby and football matches (the tartan army) with sports shirts, pushed-down socks and boots ... and why not? I would rather see the kilt worn with the 'wrong' accoutrements than not worn at all or only worn by a handful of purists and people with disposable income to spend on getting it right - among whom I count myself! On the other hand, those who are informed enough and have the resources to 'get it right', should, perhaps, be role models for others to emulate.

Kilt wearing in Scotland for most Scots is associated with a sense of occasion:

-Rights of passage such as christenings, graduations, weddings and, occasionally, funerals
- Social events such as dinners, dances, Burns supper, St Andrew's day parades and Hogmanay
- Sporting events such as highland games and supporting the national team
- Formal events such as royal garden parties and visits, civic receptions, special church services, armistice day (remembrance Sunday) and award evenings

From my observation, most Scots in Scotland wear national dress for celebrations of one sort or another. The kilt is only worn by a few as everyday clothing. Some because it is appropriate to their occupation such as selling Scottish produce, work in the tourist industry, or they are pipers. However, a small minority do wear it regularly without it being linked to either celebration or their occupation. Among them I can think of a few clergy, including a retired bishop, and some bar and hotel staff.

Outside Scotland, however, Scots turn up in kilts all over the place. I bumped into two in different parts of the Czech Republic last summer and, on one occasion, was wearing the kilt myself.

A bit late but lets see if this sparks of any worthwhile debate.

[CameronCat]

Mercy! What a thread...took the better part of an afternoon to read it.

So here's a tip o' the hat and a sassy flick of the cat's tail to all the participants for their well-thought contributions. Such erudition and civility is rare on Internet forums, and highest points to all the players.

Anyway, way back on some previous page, a post inquired "Are there any questions remaining?" I thought the discussion of tolerance for kilted tourists, disaffected students, etc., suggested a follow-up question. It's a bit off the OP's inquiry, but I think it has merit. To wit:

There are those here who hold hard to tradition and adhere to the rules--perceived or functional--for wearing a kilt. (Never too low, socks too high, wrong jacket, etc.) There are others who hold that in this modern day, the kilt is but another bit of clothing, to be worn and accessorized to the wearer's taste.

I ask:
Is the wearing of any kilt, regardless of manner or accessories, preferable to the kilt not being worn in the same circumstance? Which is the greater sin--wearing it "badly" (incorrectly) or not wearing it at all?

Discuss freely. Write upon both sides of forum if necessary.
Your mileage will vary; offer void where prohibited by lunch.

[Jock Scot]

Mercy! What a thread...took the better part of an afternoon to read it.

So here's a tip o' the hat and a sassy flick of the cat's tail to all the participants for their well-thought contributions. Such erudition and civility is rare on Internet forums, and highest points to all the players.

Anyway, way back on some previous page, a post inquired "Are there any questions remaining?" I thought the discussion of tolerance for kilted tourists, disaffected students, etc., suggested a follow-up question. It's a bit off the OP's inquiry, but I think it has merit. To wit:

There are those here who hold hard to tradition and adhere to the rules--perceived or functional--for wearing a kilt. (Never too low, socks too high, wrong jacket, etc.) There are others who hold that in this modern day, the kilt is but another bit of clothing, to be worn and accessorized to the wearer's taste.

I ask:
Is the wearing of any kilt, regardless of manner or accessories, preferable to the kilt not being worn in the same circumstance? Which is the greater sin--wearing it "badly" (incorrectly) or not wearing it at all?

Discuss freely. Write upon both sides of forum if necessary.
Your mileage will vary; offer void where prohibited by lunch.

I assume you expect us to be wearing something? Seriously though. If the kilt is being worn badly I would much rather not to see it worn at all.This may upset some, but I also include most of the "Tartan Army" as well, in my statement. Why? It shows lack of respect to Scotland. If being worn by non Scots badly it shows one or a mixture of all of the following; lack of respect for Scotland, indifference, ignorance and arrogance. Ignorance I can partly understand, in some circumstances, the rest I find insulting.