Highlanders Discuss Highland Attire

[creagdhubh]

As I see it Kilt wearers fall into distinct categories here in Scotland

1) The Old School - staunch traditionalist, Me and Jock for example, we know how to and more to the point when to wear the kilt, to us the kilt is everything, but not everything, we wear tweed jackets, coloured hose, balmoral bonnets, shirt and tie, we are comfortable wearing it, we are not self concious, to us it's just a way of dressing, we even have hand me down ancestral kilts and accessories.

2) The New School - Traditionalist with a modern flare, Paul and Cessna fall into this category, they love to wear the kilt in a traditional manner but aren't afriad to try something different, modern multi coloured boots, contemporary kilts etc, they know how to wear the kilt, are comfortable wearing the kilt, keen to expand and improve their kilt collections and accessories.

3) The Hire School - Non kilt owning wearers, traditional in the hire shop sense of the word, white hose, ghillie brogues, ill fitting kilt, dress sporran for daywear, pc jacket, they will wear the kilt for special occassions, graduations, weddings etc, they may eventually go onto buy their own kilt and after a few years, then learn that they didn't actually know it all when their interest takes them into the real world of kilting.

4) The Desperate School - So desperate are these folk to own a kilt that they go to a food chain store and buy a complete kilt outfit for £1.99, they wear it to every possible event, the pub, the rugby, weddings, funerals, they put on weight or the kilt shrinks, they then take it to the nearest kilt makers for adjustment, are shocked to find the adjustment charge is more than they paid for the kilt, so they don't pay and just go back to the food store and buy a bigger £1.99 kilt, they think they look great, in reality they look like the sacks of potato's in the foodstore.

that's basically my take on it, you will however note the abscence of measurement, here in Scotland the 8 yard knife pleat is king, you wont find 4 and 5 yard box pleats, you wont find contemporary kilts, except in Edinburgh, and he is away on holiday most of the time or so it would appear from reports on here, but you will see far too often white hose, ghillie brogues and dress sporrans at highland games, daytime weddings ceilidh's, to re-iterate, there are those in the know, and those who haven't a clue except whatthe rental man tells them.

I am amongst your ranks for option number one! Sometimes I see where the future of Highland dress is going, and I count my blessings that I am stuck in the past, and I am only 28 years old! Where did this knowledge and appreciation for the old school, traditional ways of wearing Highland attire come from? One answer, my grandfather, Lewis H. Macpherson Sr..

[CMcG]

As I see it Kilt wearers fall into distinct categories here in Scotland

1) The Old School - staunch traditionalist, Me and Jock for example, we know how to and more to the point when to wear the kilt, to us the kilt is everything, but not everything, we wear tweed jackets, coloured hose, balmoral bonnets, shirt and tie, we are comfortable wearing it, we are not self concious, to us it's just a way of dressing, we even have hand me down ancestral kilts and accessories.

<snip>

I am amongst your ranks for option number one! Sometimes I see where the future of Highland dress is going, and I count my blessings that I am stuck in the past, and I am only 28 years old! Where did this knowledge and appreciation for the old school, traditional ways of wearing Highland attire come from? One answer, my grandfather, Lewis H. Macpherson Sr..

creagdhubh, you obviously have strong Highland connections but I'm a little confused by your claim to be amongst the ranks of Redshanks' category #1. Are you born and raised in the Highlands and only recently moved to Missouri? Or are you an American with a Highlander grandfather? Just to clarify and with no disrespect intended...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

*****

[MacRobert's Reply]

Sorry that my contribution to this thread is so late - work got in the way. I recognise the observant and insightful descriptions by Jock, Redshank, Phil and others, and I particularly enjoyed CMcG's anthropological analysis. There is little of substance that I can add but here are a few reflections on my own wearing of the kilt and what I have observed in Scotland.

I was about three years old when I got my first kilt. It was in ancient hunting Robertson and I remember the delight of my parents at its swing. A wee balmoral bonnet followed. At about 12 or 13 another kilt in ancient hunting Robertson was made for me and I inherited an ancient dress (red) Robertson kilt from a cousin. The latter, worn for weddings and other posh occasions in the evening with a wee white hair sporran, a black velvet Montrose doublet and lace jabot and cuffs, was very warm (even before the days of central heating). The hunting (green) Robertson with tweed Argyle jacket and waistcoat (antler buttons and epaulettes but a single button only on the cuffs) was worn for smart rather than posh events such as church on Sunday or with a Scout shirt as part of the uniform. This was worn with a plain brown leather sporran but I don't remember any of us boys having a kilt belt, other than the belt worn with Scout uniform. Shoes were the same black or brown leather ones we wore with other formal clothes.

Kilts and jackets never get too small (Why do people say they do?) but boys do grow too large for them. So by the time I was in my 20s nothing fitted. When I got married at the end of the 1960s, it was not in the kilt as my father had done. Few did at this time and the cost was prohibitive. Some years later, however, I had a kilt made in modern dress (red) Robertson (which I still wear) and bought an off-the-peg black barathea Argyle jacket (with PC cuffs), black belt with 'silver' buckle and (I confess, on the advice of the tailor) a pair of black gillie brogues. With a limited budget and growing family this did for both day and occasional evening (black tie) wear. I was over dressed using it for day wear and under dressed for black-tie events but it was adequate during 16 years living and working in England, attending Burns' suppers and Hogmanay back in Scotland, and it was what I could afford at the time. My kilt pin was my father's old silver clan badge (with one letter of the motto missing).

Back in Scotland after 16 years in England, my son started attending weddings as a guest. My one kilt and jacket became a shared family resource! So, with increasing financial prosperity, I had ancient hunting Robertson kilts made for both of us (my son's as a birthday present). As with the previous kilt, I only remember the tailor offering two options: 13oz or 16oz weight. 8 yards was assumed as was knife pleating to the set. Although we are two different generations we both have tweed Argyle jackets with antler buttons, epaulettes and gauntlet cuffs. His attitude to gillie brogues was (with no influence fro his father), "I don't want those shoes with laces that go up your legs." He chose tan semi-brogues for smart day events such as weddings but prefers to dress down with brown leather trainers. He has no white hose, I do but only for unkilted wear with wellington boots!

With increasing prosperity and 40 years of gradually acquiring the 'right gear' I am able to dress for the occasion. For me, kilted day wear is hunting Robertson kilt, tweed Argyle jacket with brown or tan leather sporran and belt with brass buckle plate (or dark green wool waistcoat) and brown or black brogues (not gillies). Hose is plain green or blue.

For evening (black tie) events it's red Robertson kilt, black velvet Sheriffmuir doublet and waistcoat (or 'white silk' waistcoat or old green brocade waistcoat that are much cooler) usually with a black bow tie but I also have a highland cravat (tied with a coachman's knot). Sporran is usually grey sealskin with a silver-plated cantle; hose in black or tartan with black brogues.

I rarely wear the black Argyle jacket now since there are few formal events in the morning (requiring morning dress) but it served well as an acceptable compromise when I had four dependent mouths to feed.

In answer to David's specifics:
- I have two wearable kilts and one old deconstructed one to provide material for my grandson's first two (and perhaps three) kilts
- Hunting (green) Robertson for day wear and dress (red) Robertson for formal evening (black tie) wear but either kilt would do fine for both
- both are 16oz and 8 yards
- Kilt pins are my fathers old silver clan badge, a sword and miniature clan badge in pewter (a gift from work colleagues) and a silver celtic cross in Orcadian silver
- Both kilts are pleated to the set
-Both worn with a waistcoat or belt - brown or tan with brass buckle for day wear; black and silver in the evening (but I rarely wear the latter as the doublet is best with a waistcoat)
Both kilts are fairly modern and have belt loops which I use

Others have described and even produced typologies of how the kilt is worn in Scotland. These concur with my observations. However, every journey starts with a single step. The first time many Scots will wear a kilt, it will be from a hire shop with white hose, gillie brogues and PC during the day. IMHO a great first step! The boy friends of my two younger daughters, one Scottish, the other English, joined our family for Hogmanay in Argyle this year. Both hired and wore kilts for the first time (with hire shop white hose and gillie brogues) and I was absolutely delighted! Not because of the white hose and gillies but in spite of them!

Scots who buy kilts and full-dress sporrans for their weddings ofter turn up in them at rugby and football matches (the tartan army) with sports shirts, pushed-down socks and boots ... and why not? I would rather see the kilt worn with the 'wrong' accoutrements than not worn at all or only worn by a handful of purists and people with disposable income to spend on getting it right - among whom I count myself! On the other hand, those who are informed enough and have the resources to 'get it right', should, perhaps, be role models for others to emulate.

Kilt wearing in Scotland for most Scots is associated with a sense of occasion:

-Rights of passage such as christenings, graduations, weddings and, occasionally, funerals
- Social events such as dinners, dances, Burns supper, St Andrew's day parades and Hogmanay
- Sporting events such as highland games and supporting the national team
- Formal events such as royal garden parties and visits, civic receptions, special church services, armistice day (remembrance Sunday) and award evenings

From my observation, most Scots in Scotland wear national dress for celebrations of one sort or another. The kilt is only worn by a few as everyday clothing. Some because it is appropriate to their occupation such as selling Scottish produce, work in the tourist industry, or they are pipers. However, a small minority do wear it regularly without it being linked to either celebration or their occupation. Among them I can think of a few clergy, including a retired bishop, and some bar and hotel staff.

Outside Scotland, however, Scots turn up in kilts all over the place. I bumped into two in different parts of the Czech Republic last summer and, on one occasion, was wearing the kilt myself.

A bit late but lets see if this sparks of any worthwhile debate.

[CameronCat]

Mercy! What a thread...took the better part of an afternoon to read it.

So here's a tip o' the hat and a sassy flick of the cat's tail to all the participants for their well-thought contributions. Such erudition and civility is rare on Internet forums, and highest points to all the players.

Anyway, way back on some previous page, a post inquired "Are there any questions remaining?" I thought the discussion of tolerance for kilted tourists, disaffected students, etc., suggested a follow-up question. It's a bit off the OP's inquiry, but I think it has merit. To wit:

There are those here who hold hard to tradition and adhere to the rules--perceived or functional--for wearing a kilt. (Never too low, socks too high, wrong jacket, etc.) There are others who hold that in this modern day, the kilt is but another bit of clothing, to be worn and accessorized to the wearer's taste.

I ask:
Is the wearing of any kilt, regardless of manner or accessories, preferable to the kilt not being worn in the same circumstance? Which is the greater sin--wearing it "badly" (incorrectly) or not wearing it at all?

Discuss freely. Write upon both sides of forum if necessary.
Your mileage will vary; offer void where prohibited by lunch.

[Jock Scot]

Mercy! What a thread...took the better part of an afternoon to read it.

So here's a tip o' the hat and a sassy flick of the cat's tail to all the participants for their well-thought contributions. Such erudition and civility is rare on Internet forums, and highest points to all the players.

Anyway, way back on some previous page, a post inquired "Are there any questions remaining?" I thought the discussion of tolerance for kilted tourists, disaffected students, etc., suggested a follow-up question. It's a bit off the OP's inquiry, but I think it has merit. To wit:

There are those here who hold hard to tradition and adhere to the rules--perceived or functional--for wearing a kilt. (Never too low, socks too high, wrong jacket, etc.) There are others who hold that in this modern day, the kilt is but another bit of clothing, to be worn and accessorized to the wearer's taste.

I ask:
Is the wearing of any kilt, regardless of manner or accessories, preferable to the kilt not being worn in the same circumstance? Which is the greater sin--wearing it "badly" (incorrectly) or not wearing it at all?

Discuss freely. Write upon both sides of forum if necessary.
Your mileage will vary; offer void where prohibited by lunch.

I assume you expect us to be wearing something? Seriously though. If the kilt is being worn badly I would much rather not to see it worn at all.This may upset some, but I also include most of the "Tartan Army" as well, in my statement. Why? It shows lack of respect to Scotland. If being worn by non Scots badly it shows one or a mixture of all of the following; lack of respect for Scotland, indifference, ignorance and arrogance. Ignorance I can partly understand, in some circumstances, the rest I find insulting.

[davidlpope]

Sorry that my contribution to this thread is so late - work got in the way.

Thanks so much for your thorough and well-organized explanation. This is very helpful.

Cordially,

David

[wildrover]

Well, it's Monday, and my account is still active... yes, I seriously thought I was gonna get the boot, after what I posted. I've really enjoyed reading the variety of replies and questions as this thread grows, and it's sparked a couple questions in my mind (that I'll post elsewhere) and a very interesting (and somewhat heated) discussion between a good friend and I.

I am amongst your ranks for option number one! <snip> etc.

Really? Why do you think so? Not that I am saying it's inconceivable, simply that your comment seems to me to fit more appropriately in a couple of the unfortunate categories I brought up, and while it'd be awesome if what you're saying is indeed the case, I'm skeptical...so...why do you wear a kilt, and what makes you certain that your experience sets you in that category of Jock Scot's?

There is little of substance that I can add but here are a few reflections on my own wearing of the kilt and what I have observed in Scotland.

It's those reflections that make all the difference. Most of us have not had kilts in and out of our lives, so hearing about your and others' thoughts, experiences and reactions goes a long way to help those of us with more tenuous connections!

Scots who buy kilts and full-dress sporrans for their weddings ofter turn up in them at rugby and football matches (the tartan army) with sports shirts, pushed-down socks and boots ...

A quick sporran swap, pull up the socks (maybe), and it sounds good to me. Wearing a kilt well means an awful lot more than two socks of the same color and a sgian dubh...as it is with anything else. Substitute "suit" for "kilt", and "tie" for "sgian dubh"...same thing.

I could actually see someone wearing a snarling full mask animal sporran to a football (what we call soccer) match...in many ways it's the only place I can think of, that a guy could get away with a piece like that, and as long as it's not done as a joke, I think a guy could pull it off. Fuzzy bunnies don't really cut it, IMHO, when you're supporting your side of a bloody, bone-jarring, organized brawl...but a snarling beast would do the trick, and the main group with negative opinions regarding full masks is likely to be elsewhere on game day .

...Maybe not in the stands, but certainly I could see it in the boxes...you guys have boxes, at matches, like we have boxes in football (our football) and hockey stadiums?

In wearing the kilt outside its native land, people generally seem to feel the need to "get it right" and, in so doing, can end up appearing more Scottish than Scots themselves.

You seen the videos of Japanese greasers? I think it's simply more human nature than anything else, to adorn oneself with the trappings of another culture as either an attempt to enjoy a romantic view of that culture, or be accepted by it...in both cases missing the often-subtle spirit that produces the cultural expressions being adopted. Tourists in Texas do it too...tourist traps sell "ten gallon hats" in the way it sounds like "kilts" are sold on the Royal Mile. If people actually do manage to get the appearance right, but miss the spirit, they will be betrayed by a lot more than their accent.

What I take from this thread is that I will never be a Highlander but, when I wear the kilt, I can try to embody their spirit. To me, this is much better than trying to copy their style because, at best, I will only be imitating with the result of a simulacra. I remain somewhat confounded by the natural kilted ease Jock Scot et al. exhibit but I shall endeavor to cultivate my own, within my local context, and with deference to tradition. Less fussing about minutiae and more kilted je ne sais quoi!

Cheers to that . I can only hope that I will someday understand the 'spirit' of it, and I suspect a lot of that comes with experience and a good source of information!

Is the wearing of any kilt, regardless of manner or accessories, preferable to the kilt not being worn in the same circumstance? Which is the greater sin--wearing it "badly" (incorrectly) or not wearing it at all?

Wearing it badly is by far a greater sin, IMHO, than bowing to societal pressure not to wear it at all.

This is America. We can wear whatever the hell we want, as long as the naughty bits are covered...the rest is dictated by good taste.

However...the way our brains process information means that the first time we see something extremely categorically different, we set a standard. For example, if you are around people wearing jeans every day, if you see an embroidered or rolled pair, it is a subcategory of jeans...those slightly different jeans haven't set the standard in your mind for "jeans".

Now, if you were to see, for the first time ever, a guy in a kilt...kilt is a new category. What you see that man wearing with his kilt, even his attitude, mannerisms, and actions, will set a standard for the next man you see in a kilt. Did the first kilt have an exploded bunny on the front? Were their shoes tied up around the ankle, and white socks? Was there a fly plaid? Were there shiny black leather boots with rings and buckles, laced to the knee? Did the guy have a limp wrist and a boyfriend and act like he was wearing a skirt? Did he have bagpipes, and was he in a parade? Sgian dubh? Whiskey flask? Was it at a sporting event? Was the kilt made of leather? Was it tartan? Was it without pleats but the wearer called it a kilt? Did it have pleats but no tartan, and the wearer called it a kilt? Was it a girl in a kilt, rather than a guy?

All those potentially unrelated details result in a new pattern in your mind, a standard for "kiltedness". Whether those details were important is irrelevant to your uninformed judgment. Maybe the guy with the limp wrist has an extremely Scottish family history. Maybe the guy in the fetish boots is on his way too/from a renaissance fair(e), and his claymore is back in the car. Maybe the guy with the plaid just got married, and the guy with the white hose and shoes is in a pipe band.

The point is, as much as we try so hard (especially in America, I think!) to keep ourselves from judging based on appearances, the fact of the matter is we still judge. We may withhold negative opinions, but we still judge..."gee, that looks really feminine...I'd never wear it." Or perhaps "that guy looks like he's part of a band or a branch of the military...that style isn't for me." Or even "there is no way in hell I'm gonna dress like Mel Gibson." They may be unspoken judgments, but whether we (as humans) like it or not, a pattern has been set in our minds, it will be projected for good or ill on other things that seem to match that pattern, and that initial pattern takes a long time and a great deal of input to change.

The first impression sets the tone, always. It's how our brains work...remember when you had a fight with a sibling or a classmate, and how whoever got to the adult first was the one whose story was believed? Same phenomenon.

The point is, many of us are setting that pattern in people's minds (they have rarely, if ever, seen a kilt), and by wearing a kilt inappropriate to the venue--

--PC to walk around the kitsch booths at a Highland Games
--Man in a kilt, wearing it like it was a girl's skirt, self-aware or not
--"Braveheart" getup when it's not Halloween
--Lace at your chin to go to the movies

--you are setting an improper standard for the rest of the world, and your improper kiltedness is reflecting poorly on every other guy who wears, or wants to wear, a kilt.

So I disagree that the kilt is just another piece of clothing. When it is as ubiquitous as jeans, it will be just another piece of clothing, and you can wear whatever you like with it, however you like, with the hemline where you please and the socks pulled as high or as low as you like--there will be so many other kilted examples that stylistic idiosyncrasies will be correctly identified as individual rather than a part of being kilted. Until then, you are making any number of first impressions through your kilted day, and as the rest of us kilted rabble aren't around to demonstrate the variety of kilted styles, you are representing the rest of us...so please do right by us.

There are those here who hold hard to tradition and adhere to the rules--perceived or functional--for wearing a kilt. (Never too low, socks too high, wrong jacket, etc.)

I separated out this quote because those three items might seem like no big deal...or like a Jewish chok (like 'merkin', I learned that word here at Xmarks! ), as rules without explanation, and I think it's worth mentioning that there is a basic reason for each. If your hem line is too low, or your socks are too high (or heaven forbid both together), you look like a guy wearing a girl's skirt and knee-highs...in other words, you have ceased to look like a man in a kilt, and instead you simply look like you are a closet case seeking acceptance through a legitimate man's garment. The wrong jacket is simply the wrong jacket, and it could be 'wrong' for any number of reasons including cut and fit as well as style.

There are others who hold that in this modern day, the kilt is but another bit of clothing, to be worn and accessorized to the wearer's taste.

I think those others overlook the novelty of a kilt, to their and our detriment. Maybe it's better to say that I agree 100% that it's another piece of clothing to be worn and accessorized to the wearer's taste, as long as it is done tastefully as regarded by the rest of the world, and appropriate to the setting in which it is worn. There are also certainly settings where I would rarely, if ever, wear a kilt...it's simply inappropriate.

My only question is whether this is simply the thinly veiled contempt for Americans that one not infrequently encounters among Brits (I've certainly encountered it more than I'd care to), or are you speaking from personal experience by which you could site some examples?

Dude, it was the 'LOL'.

...And I've never encountered that attitude. Maybe I'm just lucky...but then I see guys and girls everywhere as just guys and girls, and the ones who aren't, I don't spend time with.

Or what's the give-away in knowing the difference between a Scot who's got it wrong and just an American?

It's the accent, but don't assume that every "just an American" will be wrong forever by virtue of national origin .

-Sean

[creagdhubh]

creagdhubh, you obviously have strong Highland connections but I'm a little confused by your claim to be amongst the ranks of Redshanks' category #1. Are you born and raised in the Highlands and only recently moved to Missouri? Or are you an American with a Highlander grandfather? Just to clarify and with no disrespect intended...

I am a second generation Scottish-American. My grandfather emigrated first to Ohio, then onward to Missouri. He is from Kingussie, Inverness-shire (Badenoch). My grandfather gave me my great-grandfather's "breacan glas" or the "grey tartan kilt" that is the most popular, most recognizable, and one of the oldest (in sett design and color scheme-recorded in Wilson's) of the Macpherson tartans. So, yes, I do currently own an ancestral kilt-though it's a wee bit too big for me at the moment! To clarify your confusion further, what I basically meant by agreeing to the first option, is that I am a staunch traditionalist when it comes to the wearing of my Highland attire. I do branch out and ensure that my Highland wardrobe is varied, and not boring, yet I try my best to wear the kilt correctly and to the high standards set forth by my own family, and by many within my clan. I see men that wear Highland attire correctly as an inspiration, and they truly have my immediate respect, as they obviosly take the time to respect Scotland and their heritage. The kilt is the finest national dress in the world and should be preserved as such. Slainte.

[wildrover]

...a staunch traditionalist when it comes to the wearing of my Highland attire. I do branch out and ensure that my Highland wardrobe is varied, and not boring, yet I try my best to wear the kilt correctly and to the high standards set forth by my own family, and by many within my clan. I see men that wear Highland attire correctly as an inspiration, and they truly have my immediate respect, as they obviosly take the time to respect Scotland and their heritage. The kilt is the finest national dress in the world and should be preserved as such. Slainte.

Got it...right on!