formal evening dress: vest or no?

[MacLowlife]

Not to muddy the waters, but the PC seems to me to be directly related to the Saxon white tie tailcoat, which is usually worn with a waistcoat. I believe the cummerbund derives from sashes. There may be some connection or there may not.

I notice the Australian solider above is also wearing a sash- not a waist-style sash, but an across the body sash. Does anyone have any experience with such sashes, other than for merit badges?

Is an across the body sash usually made in a loop ( as with the BSA model) or is it a wide ribbon with a closure at the bottom. PLEASE NOTE, I am not talking of tartan sashes, but of the King Edward variety, usually worn as an insignia for some order...

[Zardoz]

Not to muddy the waters, but the PC seems to me to be directly related to the Saxon white tie tailcoat, which is usually worn with a waistcoat. I believe the cummerbund derives from sashes. There may be some connection or there may not.

The cummerbund was first introduced in the late 1880s as a silk sash that was wrapped around the waist, possibly inspired by military sashes from India and the British officers serving there. It went away after a few years then returned in the 1920s in it's current form as a tuxedo accessory.

[saxandpipes]

Not to muddy the waters, but the PC seems to me to be directly related to the Saxon white tie tailcoat, which is usually worn with a waistcoat. I believe the cummerbund derives from sashes. There may be some connection or there may not.

That might explain it.

I regularly have to wear white-tie, playing in the symphony orchestra. This should (as far as I'm concerned) include a white waistcoat, to match the tailcoat. One time the particular orchestra I was playing with required a black cummerbund instead of the waistcoat, and I have to say that I felt downright stupid. To me it just looked ugly, and destroyed the lines that white-tie dress creates, not unlike the kilt (when done properly).

I think the whole point is that the man is made to look taller and slimmer. This is completely negated when when you chop the whole ensemble in half with a cummerbund.



wrong


Here is how it should be done (and I mean the well-dressed man on the left- the other has also managed to get it wrong, the white strip below the jacket having the same chopping effect as the cummerbund).



Cheers,

Michael