Need Help: USAF Mess Dress with Kilt

**davidlpope** · 23rd August 10, 07:13 AM

Here is a link to the AF regs:

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf

I find nothing in them that would allow distinctive uniform parts (certain outergarments are excepted if all insignia, etc. is removed) to be mixed with civilian attire, including the kilt.

Cordially,

David

**macwilkin** · 23rd August 10, 07:17 AM

Here's a couple of photos from the aforementioned USAF Pipes & Drums alumni site:

http://usafdrumcorps.us/images/Still...es/pipers.html

http://usafdrumcorps.us/images/Still...northPole.html

Note that the band is wearing essentially mufti in these two photos. You will find others of an "official" band uniform, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend copying that, since your father is not part of a pipe band.

Given that the USAF Pipes & Drums did wear civilian attire (there is another photo of the band wearing saffron kilts and doublets when meeting JFK), I think that is the precedent to follow here.

T.

**MacMillans son** · 23rd August 10, 07:25 AM

Hi Ringo,

I can't speak to the military traditions, but if you are considering a PV kilt the Marton Mills web site shows an accurate color representation of their PV tartans and much more extensive list than USAKs stock offerings. Rocky can get any tartan on that list, but if he does not stock it, he will not be able to offer his rush deliver option. In case you haven't been on their site, the PV is listed under the heading Schoolwear, then drop down on the Balmoral list.

Hope this helps,
Brooke

**berserkbishop** · 23rd August 10, 07:58 AM

Ok, Im not Airforce and I dont pretend to know the branches regs, but if they are similar to Navy's I suspect that it would be better to not wear the kilt. I know there is no provision for it in our regs and I would rather not chance the "no body will say anything" card. Maybe no one would care, but out of respect for my service I try to follow the rules.

That being said, if I wanted to go kilted and respect my service I would wear the kilt and mini medals on a PC, which from what I have seen is perfectly acceptable.

The way I look at the dressing thing is this. . . the only time I have ever seen Navy personnel mix uniform items and civilian clothes is on a medical chit. (like wearing sneakers with cammies for foot issues). So I either wear full civvies or full military rig.

Just my two cents. Take it for what its worth.

Bishop

**thescot** · 23rd August 10, 08:00 AM

It is wihtout a doubt not within military dress regs to mix a kilt with the uniform. Having said that, there is probably nothing wrong with removing the items which are of military and/or branch specific origin and wearing it as a civilian jacket. The medals or ribbons would, of course, be appropriate since they are one's personal awards, but the buttons and collar insignia would not be appropriate.

I am sure you dad will think all this through. It would be very easy to rent an outfit that would satisfy your needs.

We look forward to a full report of your nuptials with pictures to accompany.

**Ringo** · 23rd August 10, 09:06 AM

Thank you all for your help. I will certainly post pics after the big day. While it will be my father's choice in what he wears... If given a choice between kilt or dress mess, I hope he chooses the kilt. I am very proud of the military involvement of my family [both of my parents attend Norwich as cadets]. However, I would love some photos of my father and I together dressed to the hilt in highland attire.

**James Byous** · 23rd August 10, 09:56 PM

I've had one Marine at Paris Island wear his mess dress with the USMC tartan (either that or Leatherneck, it's been a while) to the Marine Corp ball. I made an Irish tartan kilt for the local Coast Guard Commander who wore it with his mess dress jacket and a caubeen in the St. Patrick's Day parade here in Savannah. They both obtained permission from their "bosses" to do so. They were active duty. If your father is retired he can do just about anything he wants. He might want to temporarily remove insignia, but medals and ribbons are worn all the time. The Air Force mess dress jacket is perfect to wear with the "Air Force" tartan. Here is a photo from the Coast Guard Pipe Band sight. http://www.uscgpipeband.org/eventphotos.php I don't know if they are "official" uniforms or not, but they seem to be. (I tried to upload a couple more photos, but can't figure out how to do it.)

**macwilkin** · 24th August 10, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by James Byous

I've had one Marine at Paris Island wear his mess dress with the USMC tartan (either that or Leatherneck, it's been a while) to the Marine Corp ball. I made an Irish tartan kilt for the local Coast Guard Commander who wore it with his mess dress jacket and a caubeen in the St. Patrick's Day parade here in Savannah. They both obtained permission from their "bosses" to do so. They were active duty. If your father is retired he can do just about anything he wants. He might want to temporarily remove insignia, but medals and ribbons are worn all the time. The Air Force mess dress jacket is perfect to wear with the "Air Force" tartan. Here is a photo from the Coast Guard Pipe Band sight. http://www.uscgpipeband.org/eventphotos.php I don't know if they are "official" uniforms or not, but they seem to be. (I tried to upload a couple more photos, but can't figure out how to do it.)

I believe the USCG pipe band is made up of active duty, reserve and auxillary members. While it certainly is a de facto recognition, just as the USAFR, USMA and USNA pipe bands are recognized, I don't believe any of the service regulations officially discuss Highland attire.

T.

**davedove** · 24th August 10, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

I believe the USCG pipe band is made up of active duty, reserve and auxillary members. While it certainly is a de facto recognition, just as the USAFR, USMA and USNA pipe bands are recognized, I don't believe any of the service regulations officially discuss Highland attire.

T.

Exactly, I don't think the regs of any of the services mention highland attire. I would bet money that the official pipe bands have received special permission to wear the kilt.

At military functions such as dining outs and the like, the individual member either received permission, or there was a lot of "looking the other way" going on.

**macwilkin** · 24th August 10, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by davedove

Exactly, I don't think the regs of any of the services mention highland attire. I would bet money that the official pipe bands have received special permission to wear the kilt.

At military functions such as dining outs and the like, the individual member either received permission, or there was a lot of "looking the other way" going on.

Sort of like "field-expedient" modifications to uniforms.

T.