Need Help: USAF Mess Dress with Kilt

[Ringo]

My father has asked me several months back if I minded if he wore a kilt to my wedding. As neither my best man or grooms men is wearing a kilt, my father didn't want to steal my thunder with a kilt of his own.

I will be wearing Ross-Hunting, which I originally suggested that he choose the same so that we would match. My father's personal opinion is that hunting tartans are too drab for a wedding, and is disappointed with that choice. He also told me at the time he didn't think he was really up to purchasing an expensive kilt. I suggested that he rent a kilt in Black Watch.

The other day he told me that what he had wanted to wear was his USAF Mess dress with a kilt. He was trying to find a "cheap" USAF kilt [i.e. Lady Jane Tartan]. He said that he has been trying to research the military traditions for wearing a kilt as part of his uniform. I was hoping that maybe someone here could help me point him in the right direction...

Since the Lady Jane Tartan has been adopted as the "unofficial" tartan of the US Air Force, does this mean that any tartan of my father's choosing would be appropriate? I am really confused. I know that for anyone else choosing to wear a kilt that choice of Tartan is purely personal preference... and while I would like to assume that is true for my father as well, is it really true when wearing his Mess Dress? [also, if it helps to know, he is retired on reserve, and not on active duty]

I was looking at the selection of tartans for casual kilts on USAKilts, and was kind of thinking along the following lines:
--American Heritage
--Mitchell [because it was the first USAF tartan]
--Scottish National
--St. Andrews [because the colors appear similar to the blue in Lady Jane]

My assumption is that choice of Tartan is up to my father, but that the color needs to be similar to the dress pants that the kilt would be replace? Am I correct, or just even more confused than I thought I was?

Anyone have any experience in this? My wedding is October 30th, and I really want to help move this desicion along quickly enough to make sure that my father can show up in a kilt. It would be very exciting to have some photographs of us together in kilts.

--Ringo

[davidlpope]

Ringo,

Here is a link to a great article written by our own Todd Wilkinson:
http://www.scottishtartans.org/USAF.htm

Here is a link to the USAFR pipe band, showing the USAFR tartan. if your father wants to purchase a kilt that is connected in some manner to his military service, that's what I'd suggest.
http://www.usafreserveband.af.mil/ph...galleryID=1274

That being said, I'm not sure that the USAF uniform regs allow for the kilt to be worn with mess dress. As a retired member of the USAFR, I suspect that he is still subject to those orders. I'd encourage him to wear regular civilian Highland clothing appropriate for the occasion. He shouldn't be as worried about showing you up as taking away attention from the bride...

I'm sure, however, you'll get plenty of feedback here to encourage your father to "just do whatever he wants."

Best of luck.

[AFS1970]

I don't think any branch of the US military expressly allows the kilt, although there are tartans for them all. Mess dress seems the most logical to adapt if for no other reasons than it fits the occasion and the short cut of the dinner jacket probably works the best with the kilt. I would think that where there is a tartan wither designed for or in use by a branch, that would be a better choice than a family tartan or that of another regiment/service.

[seanachie]

I am mad at myself because I deleted a PM that had some good info in it related to this tartan. I myself am an AF vet and I wound up with (fortunately) a lower priced kilt marketed as the AF tartan that was not, a small difference but actually made it another tartan (the Thurso) The links above are good info. Because I am going from memory please do not hang me if I am in error but I believe that Barb Tewskbury, a kilt maker on this forum, advised that she can make sew an AF tartan kilt but that the tartan is available from one mill and not in heavy weight cloth. I like the suggestion above to skip the mess dress. Speaking for myself, I wore the uniform with pride and I would feel awkward, even if no one were ever to know, that I was not wearing it properly.

[Jock Scot]

I am not a US citizen and I have no knowledge of US armed forces dress regulations so I say this with the greatest of respect and I hope, kindness.

The kilt is wanting to be worn at the wedding,so lets use you as an example. You are trying to mix three( Scottish, US and US military)cultures and I wonder if they were ever intended to mix and of course, they were not.If you want to be a Scot for the occasion then dress like a Scot, if you want to dress as a citizen of the USA then do so, if you want to show your pride in your country's military, are you really doing so by mixing these cultures, and wearing the uniform in possibly,an inappropriate way? I am not saying you can't, I have no idea of your military dress regulations, but should you? I cannot speak for you, nor should I , but I know what I think.

[Ringo]

My father thinks things out very carefully before he does them, and especially in matters of things like etiquete and dress. I had no idea when he first mentioned wearing a kilt that he was intending one to go with his mess dress.

Since I have no experience in any branch of the military, military customs and regulations often confuse me. The kilt police, and military fashion police will certainly not be in attendance... in fact I only have one friend on the guest list who served the country and he's the last person in attendance that would think unkindly of my father's intentions [and also probabaly the last to know if the kilt is allowable]. However, my father is not going to wear it if he doesn't know it is expressly "correct."

I think the most important question is if the current military regulations would allow the mess dress to be worn with a kilt. If the answer is "no" any discussion I brought up about tartan selection becomes moot to begin with.

Any current and/or retired military folks on here know where to point me in the right direction to find that answer out?

I am very proud of my fathers years of service to our country. I think the mess dress is very "spiffy" looking. However, I think seeing him wear a kilt is more important to me that seeing him in his mess dress.

[MacLowlife]

I do not know about an officer's jacket, but I have seen a handful of USAF Mess Dress jackets that are simply blue waist length tuxedo jackets with two rows of USAF buttons. There may be a row of braid at the wrist.

I think your father can easily "De-Mil" his jacket for kilt wear. Chances are, the buttons are on cotters and can be swapped for square ones. He can replace the epaulettes/ shoulder boards or snip off the cloth that secures them. And then he should probably wear a civilian shirt and tie.

Others have pointed out that there is no official uniform kilt for any of the US branches. If he chooses to retain the official details, he will be out of uniform, but I am sure he knows that better than I do. What kilt he wears really will not affect that.

[macwilkin]

One web site that might be of interest to your father is the USAF Pipe Band Alumni web site:

http://usafdrumcorps.us/pages/pb_index.html

I don't have my copy handy, but the Company of Military Historians produced a plate a number of years ago of the uniforms of the USAF Pipe Band, and a majority of the pipers depicted were wearing "mufti" Highland kit (i.e. civilian rig) instead of mess dress. If it were me, I would follow their lead and wear civvie rig, and your father could even choose to wear the "Mitchell" tartan, as it was the tartan worn by the USAF Pipe Band. It is also known as the "Galbraith/Hunter/Russell" tartan. My article gives a brief explanation as to its origin.

T.

[dadgad]

I am reluctant to wear my uniform at all (USN, Ret) as I don't meet grooming standards (beard, hair too long), but I suspect a kilt with any uniform is non-reg. However, here's site that I found with some folks wearing kilts with various uniform parts, all services. Pretty spiffy, I'd say. I usually wear a PC with miniature medals when I want to show my Navy pride.

http://www.alexismalcolmkilts.com/1089/1098.html

[davedove]

I am not completely familiar with the Air Force regs, so I would say to look there for your definitive answer.

However, based on what I know from Army regs, there is no provision for wearing the kilt with the uniform, except when specifically allowed for things like official pipe bands.

So, officially, it shouldn't be worn that way.

Now, that being said, probably no one would say anything, or even know any better, but if you want to be "correct" I believe that is the answer.