Need Help: USAF Mess Dress with Kilt

[berserkbishop]

I think it all boils down to how much one respects military regulations, the time they spent in the military, and those still serving in the military.

While I was in the military I respected and followed AR670-1. I've been out of the military for better than twenty years, but I still respect and follow those regs. Out of respect for those still in the military, I would do nothing that might cause the uniform they currently wear to be brought into disrepute by myself or others.

Others, I have noticed, don't seem to have the same level of quiet respect, which I find rather sad.

Completely agree with you on this.

[dsinohio@hotmail.com]

I asked a very similar question here some time ago, and received some interesting answers. The main thrust, though, was that USAF uniform regs don't allow for kilts to be worn with uniform items, except with very specific exceptions. My feeling is, however, in line with my fairly-newly adopted "rule of life": I'm 70 years old, I'm a veteran, and I'm Mexican; three reasons why I can say, do, or wear whatever the heck I want!
With that in mind, I recently got up my nerve, finally, and put together my gear to wear on "formal night" on my latest cruise. I'm a retired Air Force member, and obviously, therefore, not all that bucks-up, so I tried to keep the costs down, where possible. I started with a USAF tartan (Thurso) kilt from Sportkilt (the only source for any Air Force kilt I could find that was anywhere near affordable), a black (therefore outdated) mess dress jacket purchased online to replace mine, which I obtained as a cadet, and outgrew DECADES ago. The rest of the accouterments are simply items easily obtained online, from E bay, kilt providers, etc.
I think it worked out OK, and I certainly got a lot of comments, almost all of them complimentary, and was asked to pose for lots of pics! And I think I got more than a couple of guys to get into kilt-wearing...
I hope this gives your father something to think about, and, should he decide to get out his mess dress jacket, I'm sure he'll get a lot of fun out of matching it with a kilt!
By the way, CONGRATS on your marriage!!!
I'd love to send a pic, but I just can't figure out how...

[Madadh]

I had the privilege of going to a Marine Corps birthday ball with my daughter( a marine) and her husband. As a vet (US Army) I decided to were my family kilt and added my medals to the jacket. I felt it was the easiest way to honour both traditions.



We even got my son-in-law all dressed up. We and the piper were the only ones in kilts.

[CelticRanger66]

Of course the regs... don't allow specifically for wearing a part of the uniform with a kilt, but as a retired Airman the regulations don't apply. I have spent the past 27 years on Active Duty in the ARMY and I have worn my kilts with my Mess Dress on plenty occassions but I also have a MEMO from a Flag Officer granting me an exemption since I am on Active Service. But as a retiree go ahead you have earned IT!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Of course the regs... don't allow specifically for wearing a part of the uniform with a kilt...

True, the regs don't allow it. They specifically prohibit it.

I have spent the past 27 years on Active Duty in the ARMY and I have worn my kilts with my Mess Dress on plenty occassions but I also have a MEMO from a Flag Officer granting me an exemption since I am on Active Service.

Active duty and reserve officers are not only expected, but required, to follow all military regulations. Retirees, who wish to wear the uniform of their prior branch of service, are likewise required to wear the uniform according to the regulations in effect on the date of their separation from the service.

With all due respect, I am surprised that as an O5 you would encourage a willful breach of any U.S. Military Regulations.

[OC Richard]

Mess Dress as worn with the kilt in the Scottish regiments does not use a Prince Charlie (a purely civilian jacket style) and does not use Evening Dress sporrans and does not use white/offwhite hose and does not use ghillies.

It uses a quite specific Mess Dress jacket and waistcoat (both of which vary not only from regiment to regiment but within each regiment, there being seperate styles for officers, sergeants, and sometimes individuals, for example the Pipe Major often has his own unique style).

The Mess Dress jacket is worn with a horsehair sporran (or a badger mask sporran in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders), diced hose, and Mary Jane style buckle brogues.

The only image I could find quickly was this small one showing the Mess Dress of the Gordon Highlanders, a Sergeant on the left, an Officer on the right:



Please no Prince Charlies, no ghillies, no white hose, no evening dress sporrans, if you want to respect military traditions.

[Geoff Withnell]

I had the privilege of going to a Marine Corps birthday ball with my daughter( a marine) and her husband. As a vet (US Army) I decided to were my family kilt and added my medals to the jacket. I felt it was the easiest way to honour both traditions.



We even got my son-in-law all dressed up. We and the piper were the only ones in kilts.

This is indeed the way to go. Regulations (at least USMC regulations) allow the wearing of medals, miniature medals or ribbons, depending on the level of formality involved with proper civilian attire at "suitable patriotic or military occasions". Here is a picture of my lady and I at last year's Marine Corps Birthday Ball.



By the way, maybe you could get your son-in-law into a USMC Leatherneck tartan kilt!?

Geoff Withnell

[CelticRanger66]

With all due respect, I am surprised that as an O5 you would encourage a willful breach of any U.S. Military Regulations.

We then since you are such a master of military conventions and regulations you not doubt know that O5 is a pay grade and proper military regulations require that I be addressed as a Lieutenant Colonel.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

We then since you are such a master of military conventions and regulations you not doubt know that O5 is a pay grade...

Yeah, I knew that. And, with all due respect, I'm still surprised that anyone in your pay grade would cheerfully advocate a breach of military regulations.

...and proper military regulations require that I be addressed as a Lieutenant Colonel.

Yeah, I knew that, too-- and I also know that the regulations you've cited only apply to those individuals serving in the active or reserve components of the armed forces of the United States. The recognition of military ranks by civilians in the United States, other than in official correspondence, is a mere social courtesy.