Etiquette lessons?

[macwilkin]

Good day all,

I’m not sure where this topic falls so I put it here by default. Mods please move as necessary.

While at the Navy Ball I had a plate setting that through me. The normal rule if you don’t know which fork to use you start on the outside and work in with each course never using the same folk twice. There was a fork on the top of the plate. Wasn’t sure whether this was a salad fork or a dessert fork. If it was a dessert fork which dessert was it for the German chocolate cake that was on the table when we sat down or was it for the lemon “Birthday” cake later that night?

I had ordered a book on gentlemen dressing and a lot of the book was just how to tie a Windsor knot verses a four in hand knot. A lot of it was conduct related to fashion. Between reading it and the puzzle issue of the extra fork I decided to get some others on manners. Since I am also dealing with people who I would never thought I would meet let alone be involved with I am picking up books on things like note writing.

Made me wonder, we seem to go to more formal events than many others, from a Yank’s point of view. A large number of us seem to be ex-military if not current military. There always seems to be one or two weddings in the making and than there are events like Burn’s Dinners. We spend hours, days, even weeks planning, tweaking and polishing our outfit to perfection, starting heated, but always polite, debates on fine to sometimes obscure points. Fly plaids or no fly plaids, medals or no medals, laces or buckles. The list goes on but than I get there and suddenly I’m drawing blanks. I’m not sure of all of you but I never had classes in etiquette and have never been to a finishing school. I mostly rely on my lovely wife to keep me out of trouble, but as I deal with people from very different social structure than I grew up in it gets to be harder and harder on her to keep me out of trouble.

Since I know there are differences in etiquette for a Scottish formal event and a wedding in the States, between a business formal and a military formal, what would you all think about starting a thread on etiquette? From the time I’ve been around here I feel that the discussion could be done politely. It would be benifitial to warn people like me what to expect at things like Burn's Dinners and I can share what you may encounter at say a military ball.

Jim

Jim,

Firstly, to learn more about the traditions and customs of Burns Night, I would recommend Hugh Douglas's Burns Supper Companion -- it's really designed for organizers of said events, but there is a lot of good information about the life and works of Burns, as well as the Supper itself -- although keep in mind, while all Burns Suppers generally have certain elements -- the Address to the Haggis, the Immortal Memory, etc., no two Burns Suppers are identical.

This web site also gives you a very basic run-down of the "Bill o' Fare":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/robertburns/bur...ng_order.shtml

Another good source of information is Mess Night Traditions by Charles Charles Gibowicz:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0Vo...page&q&f=false

I wish he did a better job at citing his sources.

The Naval Historical Center also has a Mess Night Manual online:

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...mess_night.htm

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Todd

[Drac]

Another good source of information is Mess Night Traditions by Charles Charles Gibowicz:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0Vo...page&q&f=false

Nice book. I use Service Etiquette by Oretha D. Swartz for a lot of my military stuff. Never had to plan dinners though but doing Color and Honor Guard for the last ten years have given me a lot of useless info on pretty much any other Navy ceremonies from Retirements and Change of Command to Plank Owners.

I will warn people off of Naval Ceremonies, Customs, and Traditions, Sixth Edition. Good book for history bad for planning.

Jim