Etiquette lessons?

[Cygnus]

Chopsticks make everything correct, surely. Of course there is the whole issue of how to correctly hold the sticks themselves....

Which is why I get a kick out of watching people try to make a good impression while eating with chopsticks. Even if they hold them properly, getting food (especially rice and noodles) from a dish on the table to one's mouth is a challenge. I've always been taught that, when eating with chopsticks, it is acceptable to lift the dish off the table to eat.

I've only once eaten with chopsticks in a formal situation, though, and I may have seemed very rude to some of the other guests who spent the evening trying unsuccessfully to eat without making a mess.

[Lallans]

Which is why I get a kick out of watching people try to make a good impression while eating with chopsticks. Even if they hold them properly, getting food (especially rice and noodles) from a dish on the table to one's mouth is a challenge. I've always been taught that, when eating with chopsticks, it is acceptable to lift the dish off the table to eat.

I've only once eaten with chopsticks in a formal situation, though, and I may have seemed very rude to some of the other guests who spent the evening trying unsuccessfully to eat without making a mess.

In Japan at least, it's considered low class to hold chopsticks ('hachi') near the working end- it's desirable to hold them as far up as possible. I make that a practice whereever I go, just in case it's universal. But it seems that the hardest way is always the most polite.

[Jock Scot]

Tobus.

I have had occasion to have a knife as my only eating(apart from fingers) tool many a time-----out in the Australian outback for one----- and have been more than happy to do so.However one does not necessarily need to bring those basic conditions home with us, do we?

Every one.

Of course every country has its own way of doing things even down to eating procedures around the table. In my experience there is a surprising similarity around the world when it comes to courtesy and etiquette and as long as you keep your eyes and mind open, little offence will be given and any minor faux pas is politely accepted and often forgiven with good humour.

But as MoR has quite correctly observed, there is nothing silly in asking questions if you want to learn.

[Lallans]

Tobus.

I have had occasion to have a knife as my only eating(apart from fingers) tool many a time-----out in the Australian outback for one----- and have been more than happy to do so.However one does not necessarily need to bring those basic conditions home with us, do we?

Every one.

Of course every country has its own way of doing things even down to eating procedures around the table. In my experience there is a surprising similarity around the world when it comes to courtesy and etiquette and as long as you keep your eyes and mind open, little offence will be given and any minor faux pas is politely accepted and often forgiven with good humour.

But as MoR has quite correctly observed, there is nothing silly in asking questions if you want to learn.

U Brits get the table manners nod in the English-speaking world, Jock, but outsiders have to be careful about where and how to use them. With great knowledge comes great responsibility- applies to etiquette as well as to spidey powers (hope you get the movie reference).

[kc8ufv]

In Japan at least, it's considered low class to hold chopsticks ('hachi') near the working end- it's desirable to hold them as far up as possible. I make that a practice whereever I go, just in case it's universal. But it seems that the hardest way is always the most polite.

Unless eating popcorn, I usually hold mine about in the middle. It seems to get harder if I move away from that point. As for eating popcorn, that,um, practice stared at one of my former employers...

[Lallans]

Unless eating popcorn, I usually hold mine about in the middle. It seems to get harder if I move away from that point. As for eating popcorn, that,um, practice stared at one of my former employers...

Name of Orville?

[kc8ufv]

Name of Orville?

Actually was a call center I worked in. Company had a policy about not eating at your desk, but they didn't care s long as you didn't get the computers and phones greasy, customers couldn't hear it, and you cleaned up your trash. Popcorn satisfied all but the greasy part, which was easily and commonly solved by reusing chopsticks from lunch. Many there ate chinese take out from a few doors away on lunch.

[Whidbey78]

"When in Rome," I have learned the hard way, requires a keen eye for detail, and a bit of focus and awareness of everything you are doing when local etiquette is very different from your own.

The first time I ate as a house-guest in Japan(my third time being there), I passed a sample of food from my plate to one of my companions. This in itself is usually acceptable, and had been encouraged in this case as our hosts had prepared a broad sampling of "Japanese Home Cooking." However, which end of the chop sticks one uses to do this is important. They politely reminded me of this. I thanked them for the reminder. Not more than two minutes later, again distracted, this time by conversation with a man who spoke four and a half languages(the half being English) I stuck the sticks into my rice bowl. Imagine you neighbor's expression if, while at the table, you suddenly shot his dog.

I already knew this was an insult, but I had stopped being mindful of what I was doing and where I was. Fortunately, they were forgiving and understanding, but it didn't ease my shame in doing something insulting when I was already very aware of the custom.

Thankfully, most people are forgiving of mistakes made by foreigners. With the exception of traffic cops, but that's a different issue.

[Lallans]

" I stuck the sticks into my rice bowl. Imagine you neighbor's expression if, while at the table, you suddenly shot his dog. "

I think I know that one. If you stuck your sticks upright in the rice bowl, that's a Shinto funeral practice, very unlucky, and in a way a virtual invitation to Death to enter the home.

I am confident there is no way to enter another culture and get everything right. I once say a very correct foreign person enter a Canadian diner and absolutely go to pieces after offending the entire place with one inquiry. Myself, I just do my best and count on goodwill and understanding. So far there have been no attempts on my life.

[Mike_Oettle]

This thread has been so long that I forget who wrote this: “. . . having to constantly swap over knife and fork hands does seem overly cumbersome to me!”

That has been my abiding impression of the American (formal) style of eating.
I certainly was taught to hold my fork in the left hand and the knife in the right, although I can understand if a lefty wants to do it the other way round.
On the other hand, there are folk who would take it as a deep insult, if not an outright challenge, if the knife was in the left hand.
My father used to use a butter knife, but I never saw the logic in placing butter on the edge of the side plate and leaving the plate greasy as a result.
He used to say: “A gentleman is a man who uses a butter knife even when his mother-in-law is present” (he used to love getting in digs at his ma-in-law).
My mother taught me to eat spaghetti with a fork and spoon, and she also used to break the sticks before cooking them. But I reckon that if the Italians eat spaghetti without a spoon, and slurp up the hanging threads, why can’t I?
I was not taught to eat either artichokes or asparagus, but my mother did teach me to eat my lettuce with my fingers. That was whole leaves of lettuce . . . and she said nothing about a French salad with dressing on it.
I will never live down the day that I was invited to sit at my grandmother’s dinner table between my uncle (mother’s brother) and his French wife, who had prepared a French salad.
I was in awe of my French aunt, but when I got to the salad I sat wondering what I should do with it. Then, recalling that lettuce was supposed to be eaten with fingers, I grabbed at the salad, only to hear my aunt say: “You eeet like a peeg!”
The gilt was definitely off the gingerbread after that, and I was not so impressed with my French aunt!
As for chopsticks, I have never learnt to manipulate them the proper way, and use my arthritis (only in my thumbs) as an excuse for not doing so. But my children learnt the art at an early age, and are quite disparaging of their ham-handed father!
My wife doesn’t even bother, though. She eats her Chinese food with a spoon (yes, she did that again this evening!).
Drinking soup out of a large soup spoon has never bothered me, but I baulked at having to tip the plate away from myself, and still do.
You spend so much time tipping the plate that the soup gets cold.
It reminds me of my father’s obsession with toast. He lived for his morning toast (he even had a story about a slice of toast he was about to each in a sangar at Monte Cassino, which landed face down in the dirt because of gunfire!).
He would painstakingly ensure that the toast was properly brown on both sides. Then he would cut the toast, and slit it between the toasted edges (sliding the knife into the slice) to butter it properly. By the time he had finished, the toast was ice cold. I felt that it was only worth eating if it was still hot, and I have not bothered with toast for many years.

Getting back to my uncle with his French wife: years ago when my mother visited them, they hosted what they referred to as a braaivleis (the South African equivalent of a barbecue).
But at a braai you cook the meat yourself, and you eat it with your fingers.
(Okay, the boerewors is often hot, and you can use a fork for that.)
Not at my uncle’s house! The food was prepared by waiters in white coats, who then brought it to the table and served it on dinnerware. The guests ate it with silver knives and forks!
Now that was definitely over the top!
Regards,
Mike

PS: Boerewors is a traditional style of sausage characterised by being made of at least two kinds of meat. Beef, mutton and pork are the traditional meat ingredients, and then spices are added, among which coriander is a must.