The Varieties of Traditional Experience: To Jabot or not To Jabot

[KenB]

I agree; a jabot for white tie. However a Ceangail may work well for a black tie event instead of a bowtie.

[Bugbear]

I agree; a jabot for white tie. However a Ceangail may work well for a black tie event instead of a bowtie.

What is a "Ceangail"?

[KenB]

Follow this link for the Ceangail.

http://www.jbyous.com/CelticNeckwear.html

[artificer]

Follow this link for the Ceangail.

http://www.jbyous.com/CelticNeckwear.html

... I'm not sure how I feel about those. On one hand, they might be pretty fetching on the right individual, but I think you'd have to be quite tall and thin to pull it off properly. Otherwise you run the risk of your head looking like a golf ball on a red satin tee.

It would be helpful to have some pictures of a whole outfit including the Ceangail, not just a close-up of the neck.

The other thing I'd be worried about is that I'd too closely resemble Bela Lugosi's Dracula. (although I see he's wearing white tie as well as the medal.)

[MacLowlife]

Thanks to XMarker Byous and to KenB for showing us the Ceangail. I am not so sure I will be wearing one, but it is an interesting option. I expect it would work quite well for the wearing of certain medals.



And it brings to mind something that has been on my mind. Has anyone ever seen an ascot worn with a kilt?

And now, back to the ectual topic...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

... I'm not sure how I feel about those. (I am-- MoR) On one hand, they might be pretty fetching on the right individual, but I think you'd have to be quite tall and thin to pull it off properly. Otherwise you run the risk of your head looking like a golf ball on a red satin tee.

It would be helpful to have some pictures of a whole outfit including the Ceangail, not just a close-up of the neck.

The other thing I'd be worried about is that I'd too closely resemble Bela Lugosi's Dracula. (although I see he's wearing white tie as well as the medal.)

For those interested, Lugosi is pictured wearing an-as-yet-to-be-identified order, pendant from a cravat (the wide ribbon around his neck). Most orders are divided into between 3 and 5 classes, with the 5th and 4th classes usually worn pinned to the chest as medals; the 3rd and 2nd class are most usually worn with the badge suspended from a ribbon (called a cravat) worn around the neck. The 1st class of most orders are worn from a broad ribbon (also called a cordon) worn over the shoulder and across the chest with the badge of the order resting on the hip. In the United Kingdom, and those Commonwealth countries which have their own system of orders, decorations, and medals, the 3rd and 2nd class badge is worn pendant from a miniature width ribbon, with the top of the badge approximately 1-inch below the knot of the tie.

In North America both the Canadian and United States governments award insignia that is worn at the neck-- the Order of Canada, and the U.S. Medal of Honor being the two most obvious examples. Non-governmental organizations also award badges of honour which are worn pendant from a cravat-- The Most Meritorious Order of Saint Andrew, which recognizes the achievements of the Scottish diaspora in the United States, being but one example.

The point of all of this is that the wearing of insignia in the manner described above has a significant meaning throughout the whole of society. These badges are the marks of heroism, service to the community, or outstanding achievements in a variety of fields. In short, they are a form of recognition that is to be respected, and not copied and debased as an item of "colorful" dress.

I frankly find the idea of the "ceangail" to be tasteless, and vulgar in the extreme.

[JSFMACLJR]

Follow this link for the Ceangail.

http://www.jbyous.com/CelticNeckwear.html

Are you serious? That's the oddest thing I've ever seen. The "tacky factor" plays into that invention.

[JerseyLawyer]

Follow this link for the Ceangail.

http://www.jbyous.com/CelticNeckwear.html

I couldn't hate it more.

Anyway, on the actual topic, while I think one could wear a jabot with a closed doublet to a black tie affair, it would be somewhat overdressing. The doublet and jabot is white tie attire.

Something I do like (though I can't claim to have worn it) is the cravat with a doublet. And I don't mean the big squishy tie thing that seems so popular among certain UK highland wear suppliers, more like a riding stock.

Here, from Highland Clans, Ltd.:



It does strike me as slightly Regency, but then again, a jabot strikes me as more than slightly Georgian.

[CMcG]

In my humble opinion the jabot is not black tie equivalent and would be best not worn at black tie events, although I accept that some do. At white tie events then most certainly.

Anyway, on the actual topic, while I think one could wear a jabot with a closed doublet to a black tie affair, it would be somewhat overdressing. The doublet and jabot is white tie attire.

Something I do like (though I can't claim to have worn it) is the cravat with a doublet. And I don't mean the big squishy tie thing that seems so popular among certain UK highland wear suppliers, more like a riding stock.

Here, from Highland Clans, Ltd.:

If the OP doesn't mind, perhaps we can expand the discussion a bit to include general neck tie options between black and white tie.

I thought I read somewhere that a doublet and jabot could be worn for both black and white tie? I agree, however, with Jock Scot and Jersey Lawyer that it seems more appropriate for full white tie.

Now what about that riding stock/Highland cravat? Where does it fit? And how is it different from a white Ascot?

Also, what about a white bow tie instead of a jabot for white tie formal? Is it done and, if so, with what jacket/waistcoat?

I have to admit I'd prefer to not wear a jabot, though I think some people (Ancienne Alliance amongst others) do it magnificently. I'm rather interested in the second half of this thread's title "not to jabot."

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Also, what about a white bow tie instead of a jabot for white tie formal? Is it done and, if so, with what jacket/waistcoat?

A white bow tie and (usually) white waistcoat will transform any open coatee or doublet (Prince Charile, Regulation Doublet, etc.) into white tie attire. Strictly speaking, with civilian attire, a black waistcoat should not be worn with white tie. While tartan and coloured waistcoats may be worn with black tie, the safer option is to stick with the white waistcoat when the invitation stipulates "White tie, Highland attire preferred".