Freedom in Tradition

[CMcG]

Indeed! Some photos in would certainly help back up the usual supects authoritarian statements and sycophantic agreement!

Is that another way of saying you disagree with Erskine and that THCD is not a free style of dress?

I don't think Zardoz is the only one around the forum who seems to feel negatively toward the rules of Highland dress, as expressed by our resident experts. In some ways I'm surprised no-one else has voiced these opinions on this thread...

I know the traditionalists are strong in their opinions, but does anyone want to take a crack at arguing for a different interpretation of Erskine? I'm not trying to incite any flaming and I trust that this would be done while staying within the rules of the forum.

[tripleblessed]

I liked Erskine's statement the first time I read it. I still like it. I hear a gentleman saying that while he might have his own ideas of what constitutes good taste, he has no willingness to decide for others choices he feels they must make for themselves. He was well aware that highland dress did not arise out of whole cloth in Victorian or even Georgian times, but evolved into what was current then (and on into what we know now). He was also aware that Scots were a pretty diverse and entertaining lot, and their wardrobes were the proof. If they had to appear at court, requirements must be met, likewise with serving military Outside that, Devil take those rude enough to comment. I tend to be pretty casual in my attire, unless the occasion calls for more. When it does, I tend to choose pretty conservatively. I don't have a problem taking center stage, but I don't have any need to do so. If someone else wants to, I pray for good choices, but I'm willing to give them room to crash and burn, hoping next time they'll think first. It appears that some agree with my position, and the words of Erskine, that Highland dress is free, others feel instead that the rules ARE hard hard and fast, and that those who disagree should remove themselves from view. If I have misstated anyone's position, it was in error, not malice, as all I have to go on are the poster's own words.

[artificer]

Is that another way of saying you disagree with Erskine and that THCD is not a free style of dress?

I don't think Zardoz is the only one around the forum who seems to feel negatively toward the rules of Highland dress, as expressed by our resident experts. In some ways I'm surprised no-one else has voiced these opinions on this thread...

I know the traditionalists are strong in their opinions, but does anyone want to take a crack at arguing for a different interpretation of Erskine? I'm not trying to incite any flaming and I trust that this would be done while staying within the rules of the forum.

I'm not a native Scot, nor did I grow up in a Scots-American household, so my views are heavily coloured by my Saxon (quite literally) background.

I find casual Highland dress VERY free, and formal dress equally so. I'll do a quick comparison by event / Saxon / Highland. I may make a few mistakes, so be kind, but here's how I see it:

Day event -nice casual
Saxon- polo and khakis, maybe broadcloth shirt. Possibly cords & sweater/jacket if cool out. Your choice of shoes/belt.

Highland - polo, sweater, jacket - your choice. A rainbow of hose and garters to choose from. Multiple sporran choices and leather goods colours to make. You get a knife in your sock too!

Day event - business dress
Saxon- blue or grey suit- single or double breasted. Your choice of shirt and tie. Shoe colour usually dictated by suit colour.

Highland- Your choice of shirt/tie as above. A riot of tweeds and baratheas in a standard jacket, but your jacket can have nearly any 'cut' to it you please (it can even be made from an old Saxon jacket). Waistcoat, SURE. Hose as above, or go Argyll/diced. Sporrans as above.

Day event - formal
Saxon - Morning jacket (no option to speak of)
Highland - see above entry for business dress, less tweed, shift buttons to chrome or gold instead of bone/leather.

Evening event - formal
Saxon - black or white tie tux. A few minor options for cut of tux, shirts and possibly tie or waistcoat colour (for black tie only). A very few options for shoes.

Highland - 3 or 4 main choices for doublets as well as Argyll jackets or PCs. MULTIPLE material options (velvet, barathea, standard wool) and colour choices (nearly any). Choice of tie (black) or jabot. Possible waistcoat choices to match your kilt, basic black, red or to match your jacket. Still have the riot of colour options for hose and garters, as well as the numerous patterning possibilities. You do lose the leather colour choice for the most part here- nearly always black.

IF it's a really formal white tie 'do' you might even wear a dirk! That can only happen in Saxon dress if you're a member of a certain few knightly orders (or a ren-fester sorry, I couldn't resist!)


IMO there are so many options it can make your head spin, if you really sit down and think about it. I don't really know why people get peeved about "the rules", as there are WAAAAY many more for non-highland dress.

I think that in many cases, Saxon dressers have internalized their rules (having grown up with them) and don't really see them as rules, just "what's done". Having someone inform them what is appropriate for Highland wear just irks.

Although it DOES beg the question for those who are so irked, WHY, if you ARE so irked by "the rules", are you dwelling in the "Traditional Highland Dress" forum?

[davidlpope]

Although it DOES beg the question for those who are so irked, WHY, if you ARE so irked by "the rules", are you dwelling in the "Traditional Highland Dress" forum?

Very good point...

[Zardoz]

Indeed! Some photos in would certainly help back up the usual supects authoritarian statements and sycophantic agreement!

Is that another way of saying you disagree with Erskine and that THCD is not a free style of dress?

Well, no. I basically agree Erskine's oft quoted statement. I say 'basically' because I do consider how long ago he made it.

I don't think Zardoz is the only one around the forum who seems to feel negatively toward the rules of Highland dress, as expressed by our resident experts. In some ways I'm surprised no-one else has voiced these opinions on this thread...

I know the traditionalists are strong in their opinions, but does anyone want to take a crack at arguing for a different interpretation of Erskine? I'm not trying to incite any flaming and I trust that this would be done while staying within the rules of the forum.

Since I'm being quoted, I will try to be more clear.

The issue I have is not with some old "rules" for Highland dress, but the way our "resident experts" hand down their versions of them.
Without naming names, we have a couple of "resident experts" that pass out insightful and useful advice, and usually back it up with some photos showing they 'walk the walk', not just 'talk the talk'

On the other hand, we have some "resident experts" that are long on talk, but a little short on walk. We have a couple of folks who are fast to point out the errors of your ways, or how "quite correct" someone elses stuff may be, sometimes seemingly based on their social standing, but show us little or nothing in the way of photos to actually back it up.
Sorry, but you can say how long you've been at it, who you know, and how you know as much about Prince Charles as a 12 year old girl knows about the Jonas Brothers, and any other esoteric knowege you claim, but to me it's mostly empty talk with out some photo's to back it up. This is the internet, you could be a troll that's never even worn a kilt!
This doesn't stop a few other members from agreeing with slavish devotion with whatever these folks say, I guess they just take it on faith.

[wildrover]

Hmmm.... Really?

I want Nighthawk's opinion.

If you want, I can page him...bet it'll be similar, but more blunt and less snarky

Sorry, but you can say how long you've been at it, who you know, and how you know as much about Prince Charles as a 12 year old girl knows about the Jonas Brothers

Prince Charles wants you to wear white kilt socks like Obama wants you to refinance your house. I read it on the internet.

This doesn't stop a few other members from agreeing with slavish devotion with whatever these folks say, I guess they just take it on faith.

OMG SO TRUE! I TOTALLY AGREE! Group hug? . Hey, you forgot the part about people posting pictures with less-than-aesthetically-pleasing-turnout, and then everyone saying how fabulously super awesome they look. If anyone is missing the point here...it is that false or thoughtless compliments obscure the goal.

Naw, I don't post a lot of pics...but then I get bored of non-action shot stuff and don't much like taking similar photos of myself.