To the Forum regarding the XMTSAS Saltire

[Zardoz]

Respectfully, though, if you believe that Jamie intended this as a slap in the face, then you really do not know Jamie/Panache, who is one of the most respectful people I know. CDNsushi's post above is spot on when it comes to the Saltire. As a former Moderator when the Saltire was commissioned, it was never officially sanctioned by the old forum owner -- it was Jamie's idea and Jamie's efforts that got her flying in the first place. Therefore, I stand by his decision to retire her.

T.

Todd beat me to it, my thoughts exactly.

[piperdbh]

Todd beat me to it, my thoughts exactly.

Mine, too.

I don't know all the behind-the-scenes stuff that has gone on over the past year or so (and don't want to know), but I agree with Panache's decision to retire the Saltire, and I very much miss his and the F-HCAG's posts.

If a new "traveler" is chosen, I hope it reaches every inhabited continent (and Antarctica, too) and rekindles the unity and harmony with which the Saltire's mission was intended.

[Nighthawk]

Respectfully, though, if you believe that Jamie intended this as a slap in the face, then you really do not know Jamie/Panache, who is one of the most respectful people I know. CDNsushi's post above is spot on when it comes to the Saltire. As a former Moderator when the Saltire was commissioned, it was never officially sanctioned by the old forum owner -- it was Jamie's idea and Jamie's efforts that got her flying in the first place. Therefore, I stand by his decision to retire her.

T.

It is indeed his decision to make. Do I support it, meaning do I think it's the right one? No. Do I think it was intended to be a slap in the face? Of course not! That doesn't mean that it's not a slap in the face just because that wasn't the intention. If my father were to take our family sword to the grave because he liked the way he looked wearing it, that would be a slap in the face- even though he wouldn't intend it to be. The Saltire is the same concept- it's like a family heirloom to this community! I've gotten to see it and I feel like it was a slap in the face!

I've been here since her inception. I do in fact remember the story, even if vaguely because I didn't keep close tabs on it. I also stand by Jaime's right to retire it simply because he did make it and technically is it's owner. Problem is that it has become so much more than just a little toy...

[macwilkin]

It is indeed his decision to make. Do I support it, meaning do I think it's the right one? No. Do I think it was intended to be a slap in the face? Of course not! That doesn't mean that it's not a slap in the face just because that wasn't the intention. If my father were to take our family sword to the grave because he liked the way he looked wearing it, that would be a slap in the face- even though he wouldn't intend it to be. The Saltire is the same concept- it's like a family heirloom to this community! I've gotten to see it and I feel like it was a slap in the face!

Sorry, but I don't see that analogy at all. My grandfather took his masonic apron to the grave with him as part of masonic funeral rites, but I don't see that as a slap in the face. I have other items to remember him and his membership in the craft. The family tradition of males joining the lodge continued, regardless of whether his apron is above or below the ground.

I've been here since her inception. I do in fact remember the story, even if vaguely because I didn't keep close tabs on it. I also stand by Jaime's right to retire it simply because he did make it and technically is it's owner. Problem is that it has become so much more than just a little toy...

I view the Saltire much like I view the old Hamish Mk. I pose that he retired a number of years ago. Folks didn't gather torches and pitchforks when Hamish announced its retirement; they simply came up with new poses, with Hamish in the lead.

T.

[Zardoz]

Guys, seriously!
I do not want to fan the flames on this, but I'll throw in one more thought.

This whole thing is rather interesting as an example of how seriously we take symbols. I'm reminded of a book I recently read, "The Invention of Tradition" which is mostly about how some ancient traditions are often something somebody just made up a generation ago, though it seems in the time of internet forums it only takes a couple years to do the same!

The airship Saltire was conceived in fun, based on a lighthearted bit of fiction, by a fellow who likes to have fun. It came from what was frankly IMO a less contentious, more lighthearted era for this forum. It's mission of friendship was heartfelt, and I did my part in it in that light, but I never thought of the little toy blimp as anything more than an excuse to go take some pictures to share with the forum.

Some of the posters have made the wee Saltire into some lofty sacred totem, like it was hewn from the earth when Hank put the first funny kilt picture on the internet in 2004. I bet it seems to our newer members like I was dragging the stone of Scone around with me! I assure you I was not, Hell, I'd put the little thing in my shirt pocket while I stalked around historical sites.


Hey, is that a sacred relic, or are you just happy to see me?


I valued the Saltire as 'a symbol' of friendship among X-Marks members at the time it was created, certainly not 'the symbol' of the forum for all time to come! We have other perhaps more lasting symbols, a lovely tartan, a good looking clan badge, the plant badge, and the "old" kilt pin not many of us have. I am proud to have an example of each of these, but honestly I don't value the forum's symbols as much as the idea of the 'community of kilt wearers' they represent .

I'm a little surprised at some of the vitriol and anger in some of the posts in this thread, I say 'a little' because lately threads about the simplest things seem to descend into fights so fast these days. At the risk of being referred to as a xenophobe or member of the 'insular old guard' club again, I agree with Jamie's thoughts that the forum that inspired the airship was not the same place it is now. This makes me a little sad, but change is the only constant, and change on the internet happens at the speed of light. A forum is a community of people, all individuals, their knowledge, talents, personalities, and attitudes shape the landscape. And the people change and come an go too. As has been observed, people have dealt with the changes in different ways, I choose to roll with it for now.

I also agree that sending something around for photos is a fun idea. But it does not have to be one thing, all the time. The 'thing' and it's origin could change from time to time. Please keep it simple, please keep it fun, and please try not to fight about it.

[robthehiker]

Guys, seriously!

I'm a little surprised at some of the vitriol and anger in some of the posts in this thread, I say 'a little' because lately threads about the simplest things seem to descend into fights so fast these days. At the risk of being referred to as a xenophobe or member of the 'insular old guard' club again, I agree with Jamie's thoughts that the forum that inspired the airship was not the same place it is now.

*** and I am definitely not one of the "old guard" (if ever there was one).

[Tony]

while I stalked around historical sites.

Your idea of historical sites differs from mine.

But I think I like your's better.

[Monkey@Arms]

Respectfully, though, if you believe that Jamie intended this as a slap in the face, then you really do not know Jamie/Panache, who is one of the most respectful people I know. .

T.

Well, its obvious none of you have ever actually been slapped in the face by Panache. First, he has to take make a great show of taking off his immaculate white gloves. Then he usually composes some couplet that is amusing only to himself. By that time he's in need of refreshment, and a pitcher of Gin & Tonics is procured and consumed. If the offending party hasn't gotten bored and wandered off, Panache then attempts to rouse himself from the settee, and if successful, and if his pith helmet doesn't slide down and obscure his vision, then he might make some kind of glove to cheek contact. At least that's what Grant told me.

Best regards,

Jake

[robthehiker]

Well, its obvious none of you have ever actually been slapped in the face by Panache. First, he has to take make a great show of taking off his immaculate white gloves. Then he usually composes some couplet that is amusing only to himself. By that time he's in need of refreshment, and a pitcher of Gin & Tonics is procured and consumed. If the offending party hasn't gotten bored and wandered off, Panache then attempts to rouse himself from the settee, and if successful, and if his pith helmet doesn't slide down and obscure his vision, then he might make some kind of glove to cheek contact. At least that's what Grant told me.

Best regards,

Jake

In addition to being the best post I've ever read on XMarks, this may be the best post I've ever read on the internet.

[artificer]

Well, its obvious none of you have ever actually been slapped in the face by Panache. First, he has to take make a great show of taking off his immaculate white gloves. Then he usually composes some couplet that is amusing only to himself. By that time he's in need of refreshment, and a pitcher of Gin & Tonics is procured and consumed. If the offending party hasn't gotten bored and wandered off, Panache then attempts to rouse himself from the settee, and if successful, and if his pith helmet doesn't slide down and obscure his vision, then he might make some kind of glove to cheek contact. At least that's what Grant told me.

Best regards,

Jake

Don't forget, he'd have to straighten his garments and check the jaunty tilt of his pith helmet!

This post was Pure WIN!
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