Wearing a basket hilt.?.

[ohiopiper]

I am of two minds. Firstly and most important to me, is personal choice. If one chooses to carry/wear a weapon, specifically a historic blade in this discussion, it is their personal choice.

Secondly, it should be carried off well in execution. In other words, make the rest of your attire match the size and configuration of the blade you're carrying. Don't show up to a formal dinner wearing a greatsword belted acros your back. A blinged out dirk is a nice accessory. At the games when everyone is in a much more relaxed and "Let's see what people are wearing" mode, getting all geeked out with the cutlery is appropriate.

Of course the most historically accurate method would be to carry a small blade you know how to use well and conceal it. I believe there was some discussion of the sgian achlais (sp) a while back.

Of course, one must remember the first rule of knife fighting. Everybody gets cut, it's just an issue of how badly.

And as far as swords being a pain, you betcha. I wore a cutlass for years to full dress ceremonies with the U.S.N. Not exactly a petite item. Think two feet of heavy blade and brass handguard similar to a basket-hilt.

[GG]

Your comment however obliges me to point out that the civilian/military distinction tends to blur when the society you're modeling things on was essentially a warrior aristocracy, as was the case with the Gael.

I do see your point.

But if I should wear a weapon - or just a knife with a blade extending 7 cm (2 3/4 inch) - it should qualify me to a stay in prison.

[ohiopiper]

Hence the reason why discussion of weaponry,even historical weaponry, gets dicey. This is an international forum and laws vary wildly from one location to another. Our personal biases are often also formed by those same laws we live under and we then deem those conditions "normal", when in fact, there is no "normal". The variety of legal conditions prevent it.

One country and society will eliminate all edged weapons, another will sell machetes at department stores. Such is the global community. The best course of action is to not judge one another by our own standards. They are not the standards of other nations and societies.

[Dale Seago]

Hence the reason why discussion of weaponry,even historical weaponry, gets dicey. This is an international forum and laws vary wildly from one location to another. Our personal biases are often also formed by those same laws we live under and we then deem those conditions "normal", when in fact, there is no "normal". The variety of legal conditions prevent it.

One country and society will eliminate all edged weapons, another will sell machetes at department stores. Such is the global community. The best course of action is to not judge one another by our own standards. They are not the standards of other nations and societies.

I could not be more in agreement with your post.

I am a senior-level instructor ("senior" as in, "In a non-promotable status because I'm maxed out on rank") in a international martial-arts organization (the Bujinkan) headquartered in Chiba Prefecture, Japan. This organization's curriculum is based in 9 martial traditions from feudal Japan's pre-unification civil war period and has as much emphasis on effective use of a very broad array of weaponry (as well as things like explosives, incendiaries, poisons, etc.) as on empty-hand methods.

Many of the traditional bodies of knowledge are illegal to learn or train in, in their "pure" or original form, in any number of countries where instructors and practitioners may reside, and "work-arounds" have to be developed. And they're not all the same for all affected countries. Makes for interesting creative exercises. :-)

(EDIT: And btw, I spent many years as an intelligence and special-ops officer for the U.S. of A. So if anyone thinks they can just ask me for details or tips on "getting away with stuff" that might be illegal where they reside. . .hey, you don't ask and I won't tell, okay?)

[Dale Seago]

I do see your point.

But if I should wear a weapon - or just a knife with a blade extending 7 cm (2 3/4 inch) - it should qualify me to a stay in prison.

And I totally see yours.

Wearing a "functional" sgian dubh (that is, one with a real cutting edge as well as a sharp point) in Japan with my kilt could bring exactly the same result.

Although I have done that in Japan, more than once, (and as recently as this past December) and gotten away with it because I was among, shall we say, a weapons-friendly group of people.

[Jock Scot]

I seem to recall that doors and swords were a disastrous mix and I was only too glad to fore-go the dubious pleasure of carting the damn things about.

Unless theatricals are your thing I cannot see any valid reason for wearing a sword with civilian highland attire. It is a very rare event to even wear a dirk so what the justification for a sword is, escapes me completely.

I quite understand people wanting to carry them for re-enactment purposes as costume, I quite understand people wanting to own them, I quite understand that people are interested in Scottish swords for all sorts of reasons,there are however, absolutely no valid reasons for carrying a sword with civilian highland attire other than out and out brigadoonary and in my not so humble opinion,it does no credit to my national attire whatsoever and in fact, it only adds to the dreaded "costume label" that should be avoided at all costs.

[robbiethepiper]

Totally agree with Jock Scott. A Sgian dubh is justifiable on the grounds of utility and tradition, dirks and swords are made and designed for one purpose only - killing people. Unless involved with acting, re-enactment etc they should remain hung on the wall at home, to admire or use on burglars

[TheNaughtyScot]

As much grief as this thread may have given you and your new choice of accoutrements, I believe that you still need a good solid answer with pictures as you first requested. The basket hilt sword is similar to the cavalry sabre in wear and use. It has a long blade for slashing your enemy on foot or on horse back. This explains the rings on your scabbard. As you will see in the following link, the rings are made so that your sword will lay a bit further down upon your thigh when you are mounted atop horse; whereas, when you are walking about on foot, you bring the sword up and hook it closer to your belt. See the pictures and read the information about the military regulations, which haven't changed much since the Prussians wrote them for us prior to the Revolutionary War. I think that if worn properly, any item of Highland attire will seem dashing and appropriate. Items only seem out of place when worn improperly and without the confidence to wear them. So put yourself together well as your attire was meant to be worn and feel good to be smartly dressed, then you will look sharp.

http://www.militarysabers.com/how-to...rmy-saber.html

-Ian

[SlackerDrummer]

I have mixed feelings on the wearing of swords with highland attire and I can't say I've reached a conclusion other than that I likely wouldn't do it myself. As to it being brigadoonery, one might reasonably argue that any person who is not a (pure) Scot wearing highland attire outwith Scotland is themselves committing this dreadful act. Of course, as we all should know by now, it is all part and parcel of the same continuum.

For most of us non-Scots, our connection to Scotland is with auld Scotland, where (some of) our ancestors are from. It's one of the reasons we are so enamored with the Highlanders of Scotland series. And we see several of these gentlemen wearing swords with their highland attire. Sure it's their best highland attire, but as has been discussed at length on this forum, it is their finest daywear attire - exactly what many people put on to attend a highland games or clan gathering. It is important to note that when these paintings were made, the carrying of swords by civilians (which had been common among aristocrats for several centuries prior) had already fallen out of practice, so clearly they thought the wearing of the basket-hilt broadsword was a part of highland finery.

The fact that the highlanders stuck with the basket-hilt broadsword long after the rest of Europe had switched to the much-thinner rapier has made this sword a symbol of Scotland. And while the civilian carrying of swords is no longer in fashion, the fact that the Scottish regiments still use the basket-hilt broadsword means that it is still the relevant sword identified with Scotland today. I think there is, therefore, a reasonable argument that the wearing of the basket-hilt broadsword (with one's finest highland daywear) is a reasonable way to connect to auld Scotland without being brigadoonery.

My complaint is when I see someone dressed like William Wallace from Braveheart and wearing a basket-hilt sword. Yes, I've seen it.

[Andy Proffitt]

Totally agree with Jock Scott. A Sgian dubh is justifiable on the grounds of utility and tradition, dirks and swords are made and designed for one purpose only - killing people. Unless involved with acting, re-enactment etc they should remain hung on the wall at home, to admire or use on burglars

I'm not trying to start trouble or discord but you say that "dirks and swords are made and designed for one purpose, killing people."

Exactly what would the "tradition" of a small knife tucked away in a sock be, but to jam it in someone if the need arose? I know some talk about it's use as a skinning/utilitarian knife, but then why carry it to gatherings, dinners, etc, where there was very little skinning of animals? I think it splits hairs a little much to claim their purposes were dissimilar.

That being said, the sword, fun as it may be, is a little too much for general Highland wear, and the dirk is rarely a fit either.

Remember, the farther removed from our barbarian forebears we get, the shorter our daily blades become.