Scottish Basket Hilt Broadsword (WWI era)

**ShaunMaxwell** · 27th February 09, 12:50 PM

Came across this on the website of a local dealer of collectible weapons and thought some might enjoy seeing it...

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ad...p?itemID=17470

Enjoy!

SM

**aviewfrom** · 27th February 09, 01:00 PM

That would be something to have...

Thanks for posting it

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 27th February 09, 01:50 PM

What an odd sword--- it almost looks like one one of those that come in by the boat load from China; the blade appears to be, well..., shot, and there is a lot of damage to the hilt. The grip is pukka-- most junkers don't have the ray skin grip. My guess is it's probably genuine, and not very valuable. Two swords in much better condition have sold on eBay in the last week for between $500-600. Using that as a baseline, I'd value this one at $350, tops.

**puffer** · 27th February 09, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

What an odd sword--- it almost looks like one one of those that come in by the boat load from China; the blade appears to be, well..., shot, and there is a lot of damage to the hilt. The grip is pukka-- most junkers don't have the ray skin grip. My guess is it's probably genuine, and not very valuable. Two swords in much better condition have sold on eBay in the last week for between $500-600. Using that as a baseline, I'd value this one at $350, tops.

I agree. Plus some other Thoughts . Here are pix. The ?? Sword on the Left & a 1885 "pattern" ( WWI ( authenticated as a "Sgt's ( a little "nicer than Issue, but conforms to "pattern"))

OTHER THOUGHTS

Hilt - You will notice "several" differences in the Hilt.
Hilt liner interior is "dirty" but NOT "WORN" as it should be if used.

Blade - No "grooves, also edge "very poor"

I thought perhaps it might "represent a 1828 "pattern ( still used in WWI) Here is a px of an officer's Sword (still conforms to "pattern"
NOTE AGAIN the "several" differences in the Hilt.

One other ?? is the apparent lack of "proof marks" or maker's marks.

As said above, for the $$$, there are FAR better ones out there. In fact the "Sgt.'s Sword is being offered for 1,1135.00 USD

Puffer

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 27th February 09, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by puffer

Puffer, thanks for posting the side by side photos. Looking at the close up of the hilt of the sword on the left (something I hadn't seen before) leads me to believe that this is probably a factory "second" that came out of Sheffield or Birmingham -- or possibly India-- and was intended for Highland dancing or hanging on the wall of a pub. Certainly the basket is about as crude a job as I've seen for a "British Made" sword. The blade is what we used to call "white", meaning it hadn't received its final polish. I suspect that the blade may not be original to the hilt-- it looks like it may have gone through a fire, or failed to pass proof, either of which would result in the proof plug being absent from the blade. But then that is what you would expect of a cobbled together sword. I've no idea what they are asking for the sword (and I shudder to think) but in my view it's not worth much more than about $100 for the sum of its parts.

Actually, I've just looked at the sword on the "Collectors Arms" web site, and note that they are asking an astronomical $895.00 for this sword. As mentioned in my earlier post two extremely nice broadswords sold on eBay this past week for around $600 each. This one's a junker, and as a wall hanger (that appears to have been though a fire) it's worth about $100. Sussex Sword in the UK currently supply broadswords to HMs forces, and for about the same price you could have a new one, with your name on it!

**puffer** · 28th February 09, 07:54 AM

My take on this, after "studying" it a little more, is.

!. What it "started" out as ??? You may be correct in your assumption.
2. My Guess is "India" There are several "features" that are "similar" to the "cheap" ( $60.00) India made swords.
3. If I saw it on a "sale table', I would say "FAKE".
Hilt = See comment on "wear" of liner.
Blade seems to exhibit "antiquing" I have seen on "knives" Plus it's "configuration" edge etc.

I have emailed the "seller" asking for "documentation" I mai be "wrong" as I can not examine it personally.

Puffer

**mouse 1** · 28th February 09, 09:43 AM

Do a saerch on the cold steel website for an awsome and functional reproduction of the same.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 28th February 09, 10:11 AM

In the collecting world there are three was to describe a sword:

1) ORIGINAL this means that the sword is exactly what it appears to be; an original from the period as to type and pattern. A broadsword dating from 1958, carried by an officer in a Scottish regiment, would be "original".

2) REPLICA an exact copy of the above sword, lacking any military connection, would be a replica. Most civilian broadswords fall into this category.

3) REPRODUCTION a sword, not necessarily true to type or pattern, of a more or less specific historical period. Most swords manufactured today, especially those made for reinactors, fall into this category.

All things being equal, CONDITION is the over riding factor in determining the value of a sword. Shiney cost more, is the rule of thumb. And, for what it's worth, a sword without a scabbard drops about 30% in value-- the cost of a new scabbard can easily equal 50% of the cost of a new sword!

**puffer** · 28th February 09, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

In the collecting world there are three was to describe a sword:

3) REPRODUCTION a sword, not necessarily true to type or pattern, of a more or less specific historical period. Most swords manufactured today, especially those made for reinactors, fall into this category.

This is the "category the "Cold Steel" fits into They make a VERY FINE Sword, IMHO, one of the best, in this "category" Here is a pix of the "Hilt" ( mine)

Puffer