Kilted inheritance? How true is it really?

[MacBean]

Some great philosophers have tackled the question of the American identity. One has pointed out that Americans do not have a "folk soul", a cultural identity coming out of the distant past, but that instead, Americans are forming their identity intentionally, hence all the internal dialog and dispute.

Links back to England, Germany and Ireland go undisputed in the United States, but Scotland gets short shrift. If Jock had emigrated here, I would suspect his children and grandchildren might feel differently from the way he does now, and he would be glad of that.

[davidlpope]

Some great philosophers have tackled the question of the American identity. One has pointed out that Americans do not have a "folk soul", a cultural identity coming out of the distant past, but that instead, Americans are forming their identity intentionally, hence all the internal dialog and dispute.

Well put.

[Jock Scot]

Some great philosophers have tackled the question of the American identity. One has pointed out that Americans do not have a "folk soul", a cultural identity coming out of the distant past, but that instead, Americans are forming their identity intentionally, hence all the internal dialog and dispute.

Links back to England, Germany and Ireland go undisputed in the United States, but Scotland gets short shrift. If Jock had emigrated here, I would suspect his children and grandchildren might feel differently from the way he does now, and he would be glad of that.

However hard I try,I doubt that I can even get half way close in understanding where you chaps are coming from. But, I will keep trying!

[Bugbear]

Some great philosophers have tackled the question of the American identity. One has pointed out that Americans do not have a "folk soul", a cultural identity coming out of the distant past, but that instead, Americans are forming their identity intentionally, hence all the internal dialog and dispute.

Links back to England, Germany and Ireland go undisputed in the United States, but Scotland gets short shrift. If Jock had emigrated here, I would suspect his children and grandchildren might feel differently from the way he does now, and he would be glad of that.

I don't accept the premise of the non-existent American cultural identity; the building of a future from world-wide things of the past, even if it is misunderstandings or reinterpretations of the ways of the past, is a cultural identity or "folk soul" coming out of the past.

I'll spare you the Walt Whitman poems, as well as, examples of how the Scots have heavily influenced this identity.

[English Bloke]

When I first tipped up to this fora and explained, probably boringly, that I had a claim to Scots identity, I stated factually, that my maternal Grandparents were both Anglo-Scots and this made my Mother, half Scots, half English by the addition of two quarters.

This, added to my Father's complete Englishness made me quarter Scots by "a process of watering". I was told by wise folk at the time time that it doesn't matter how much water you put in the whisky, it still, ultimately tastes of whisky. A lovely analogy I think... I still however, regard myself as an Englishman, all be it with a greater appreciation of my origins.

My Grandmother was a Bruce. Her Surname daughtered out but my Mother was given the middle name of Bruce to preserve the link. Mine and my sister's middle names are also Bruce, My children's middle names are Bruce. My nephew's and niece's middle names are Bruce. I'm optimistic that all their children's middle names will be Bruce too. I can't dictate that but were it to be, so we go on...

I don't think that we can escape the fact that Scottishness (if not being Scottish absolute) has now extended outside the boundries of Scotland. This feeling is evident from the worldwide membership here, though there are many millions worldwide who take pride in there Scottishness but don't log on to XMarks.

I also know Jocks who live in Englandshire who's English born kids speak with Lancashire accents, but those kids, blood Scottish, when asked, still regard themselves as Scottish and not English.

I also know a number of British Asians who are in everyday life, as British as me but still have a harking to their Asian roots despite never having been "Home" in thier lives.

I was born in Africa and although I love the Dark Continent and have been back to visit a few times, I don't regard myself as African because my heritage is ostensibly British.

I believe your cultural identity stems from where you find your affinity. It's not a bad thing. The extent of Scottish influence throughout the world should be celebrated. It's good for Scotland. It keeps a small country alive when it is has millions of supporters watching out for it worldwide.

It will certainly help the woolen and kiltmaking industries to name but a few. Industries that are currently in dire straits by all accounts and I think, to be frank, without the diaspora, they would already be long gone.

Or we could play "dog in the manger".

[Cowher]

I remember in grade school America (USA) was described as a melting pot. All cultures who came to America would be added into the broth of the American people. Therefor all of America would melt that original culture and it would become part of the American culture.
My sister who is now in highschool is being taught that America is a salad bowl. Each person retaining the culture of their ancestors. No one melts into America. Yet America is (supposed to be) a place where you and your cultural heritage are accepted and you are expected to honor that heritage but you are also expected to Americanize your day to day life.
What is purely American that you can physically pass to your offspring? A flag? A purple heart? Furniture? In every other country there is a cultural style of dress. Artifacts and other things that are specific to that culture.
America has military and war. That's it. Everything that is a antique of America or is special to America is from the wars they waged. There is no kilt, no sarong, no abayas, jilbas or hijabs, no Kimono.
The heritage I will pass to my children will be first my religion and the heritage that comes with that (I pray they choose to accept it on belief not obligation) and then the culture of their ancestors the struggle they went through and the things tgey learned. If they like they will expand to learning of other cultures. But my hope if that they always try to keep that heritage alive. That is their most valuable inheritance.

[SlackerDrummer]

What countries like Scotland have that America lacks is homogeneity, but that doesn't mean that the United States doesn't have a national identity. America's national identity to a large extent is its multiculturalism.

But even if you consider how homogenous Scotland is, look at its national costume - the kilt (I wonder what the national costume is for women ). We've all seen the good-natured ribbing about Lowlanders and the kilt on this forum. So here we have a country that has adopted as its national costume the attire of only a segment of its population - the Highlanders - because these days the kilt is more than the clothing of the Highlanders; it represents the spirit of Scotland.

Well, I hate to break it to some of you, but the United States has a national costume, too. It's called Western Wear, and whether you love it or hate it and whether or not you accept it as such, it's true. Western Wear in the United States, much like the kilt in Scotland, represents the spirit of America. But here's where it gets tricky.

You see, there are those who think it's disengenuous for a Lowlander to wear the kilt, or at least they simply - and rightfully - hold that it's not traditional for them to do so. Well, the whole of Scotland will fit into the United States nearly 125 times. So imagine how disengenuous it seems for a fellow in Boston or Key West or San Francisco to don a cowboy hat, cowboy boots, and fancy Western shirt unless he (or she) is an avid country music fan.

[artificer]

Well, I hate to break it to some of you, but the United States has a national costume, too. It's called Western Wear, and whether you love it or hate it and whether or not you accept it as such, it's true. Western Wear in the United States, much like the kilt in Scotland, represents the spirit of America. But here's where it gets tricky.

You see, there are those who think it's disengenuous for a Lowlander to wear the kilt, or at least they simply - and rightfully - hold that it's not traditional for them to do so. Well, the whole of Scotland will fit into the United States nearly 125 times. So imagine how disengenuous it seems for a fellow in Boston or Key West or San Francisco to don a cowboy hat, cowboy boots, and fancy Western shirt unless he (or she) is an avid country music fan.

Steady on there!



This is much more of an "All-American" look (like it or hate it).

Much of the "Western" look that is credited to Cowboy style is Spanish influenced Mexican in origin. Look at tooled leather, cowboy hats, and the odd embroidery on this particular shirt.

That's the problem(?) with America. Being a relatively new country made almost entirely of immigrants (and marginalized native peoples) there are few TRULY and WHOLLY "American" things, if you look deeply enough.

Jazz and blue jeans are probably as close as we get.

[Mike_Oettle]

Well, if you like, America has jazz and blue jeans.
South Africa has both, but blue jeans are not indigenous to it, and only some jazz belongs to South Africa.
Some people like to imagine that white South Africans should model themselves on the Voortrekkers (the pioneers who trekked inland in the late 1830s to establish the Boer republics). However not only are many white South Africans not Afrikaans-speaking, but many white Afrikaans-speakers belong to families that stayed in the Cape Colony, and many who speak Afrikaans are not white.
Should we look at traditional beadwork? Various Bantu-speaking peoples in Southern Africa have their own styles of it, but the beads used were imported from Europe. And a Xhosa will not wear Zulu beadwork, or vice versa.
What we have is our families’ traditions. For me, that includes the kilt, and I am happy to wear it, in tartans either indigenous or Scottish.
Regards,
Mike

[SlackerDrummer]

Should we look at traditional beadwork? Various Bantu-speaking peoples in Southern Africa have their own styles of it, but the beads used were imported from Europe. And a Xhosa will not wear Zulu beadwork, or vice versa.

It's interesting that you should bring up beadwork. Beadwork is also a quintessential form of decoration in Native American clothing and artifacts and the styles vary (in some cases widely) from tribe to tribe. Yet, the beads are all imported from Europe, so these "traditional" items only date from the beginnings of colonization.

@Artificer
Regardless of its origins, Western wear is uniquely (North) American and, unlike a t-shirt and jeans, can run the gamut from very informal to very formal, just like the kilt. I would venture a guess (I admit I'm not well traveled enough to know for sure) that the rest of the world (except perhaps for Canadians and Mexicans) sees these things as American, too.