Kilted Golfer DENIED Play at Royal Troon because of the kilt

[ForresterModern]

Being mischievous of mind and with absolutely no knowledge of golfing rules. Would plus 4's (traditional golfing attire I believe) worn on a golf course(Royal Troon for example),by a male,but without hose, be regarded as "long trousers" or, a variation of those "long short things" that are seen about these days?One could argue that they are shorter long trousers,I suppose?

Get stuck in Jeff!!!!

Jock

To the best of my knowledge, Plus-2's, Plus-4's, and Kinickers, when worn with proper length hose (those covering the legs below the hem of the trousers, are appropriate for wear (they must be since I saw two golfers teeing off Troon #1 wearing canary yellow and fluorescent pink knickers with matching argyle hose and vests as I was coming down Troon #18 in my trousers. I believe that if they were worn without hose or with shorter hose than covered the exposed lower leg beneath the hem that they would likely be considered inappropriate (as well s funny looking), as best as I can assume they would then be considered "shorts". But then again I can only speculate what Troon's decision might be.


j

[MacMillans son]

Jeff,

I understand their refusing to allow the wearing of the kilt must have been a real head spinning moment, but it just further supports the reality that the kilt is not commonly worn attire in Scotland. Native Scots wanting to have a picture take with you further supports that.

It seems their response is wholly consistent with what our native Xmarks members have told us. The wearing of the kilt is not much more common in Scotland than it is in the U.S. and is typically relegated to, as the club indicated in their response, “ceremonial” attire (worn to, and for, special ceremonies only). I read that portion of their response to mean they would not allow the wearing of casual kilt attire in the club house either. Apparently, the kilt is not inherently appropriate attire in all areas and venues of Scotland. That, I am sure, is not news to native Scots.

I am missing what it is that is fueling the outrage over the fact that they have a dress code, and the kilt is not included as acceptable attire, other than the romantic belief that it should be. As you know, most courses in the U.S. have some sort of dress code. I would expect the same response from a U.S. course if a Scot came over and attempted to play in Levi’s at a course that deemed them inappropriate course attire, after all Levi’s are an original American garment. The course response, I assume, would be similar to the one you received ,“ We appreciate Levi’s, and agree they have their place as original American attire, but do not consider them appropriate attire on our course”. End of story.

It’s your sanity friend, but I would consider letting the matter drop. I am confident that you will receive no real satisfaction if your goal is to have a private club change it’s rules based on a romantic American notion that kilts should be inherently acceptable attire in all areas of Scotland.

Respectfully,

Brooke

[artificer]

It’s your sanity friend, but I would consider letting the matter drop. I am confident that you will receive no real satisfaction if your goal is to have a private club change it’s rules based on a romantic American notion that kilts should be inherently acceptable attire in all areas of Scotland.

Respectfully,

Brooke

I think part of the issue is that the kilt ISN'T specifically barred.

Jeff,
the reply sounds a lot like a very polite "thanks for the email, get stuffed" to me.

Give 'em hell ith:

[Mike_Oettle]

Interesting point made there by Jock.
But I must congratulate you, Jeff, on a balanced and courteous response to the club secretary that underlines his hypocrisy without calling a spade a bloody shovel.
I don’t play golf, but I support the right of kilted men to play the game, especially since it is a Scottish sport.
Women golfers are nowadays permitted a choice between trousers and a skirt. What is different about men?
Regards,
Mike

[artificer]

What is different about men?
Regards,
Mike

Women's legs are nicer to look at?

[Jock Scot]

Jeff.

A small, but possibly important point that you might bear in mind, is that Troon is most certainly in Scotland, but not in the Highlands the home of the kilt, which may colour the club's point of view.

[davidlpope]

This morning in my email I received the following response from the club secretary at Royal Troon regarding my previous email complaint:

Dear Dr Foster



Thank you for your e-mail regarding your visit to Royal Troon. I regret that you felt aggrieved by being asked to change from your kilt into trousers to play golf. Royal Troon wants guests to have an enjoyable experience when they visit us and indeed we have a large volume of correspondence thanking us for our hospitality.



In keeping with many organisations in golf, including most amateur and professional organisations who stage major championships around the world, long trousers are the accepted form of dress on the golf course. Royal Troon adopts a similar approach.



We greatly respect, however, the traditional dress of Scotland and welcome full ceremonial kilt attire being worn within the Clubhouse.



I hope that you will reconsider your view and visit Troon in the future.



Regards



David



D L K Brown
Secretary
Royal Troon Golf Club
Troon
Ayrshire
KA10 6EP
Tel No: 01292 311555
Fax No: 01292 318204

I'm sorry you didn't get the response you were seeking. I can't say I'm surprised, though.


Jock's point about it being a course in the Lowlands, with no authentic ties to the kilt, is well-taken.

Perhaps this incident does serve to provide us with useful data about how/when Scots think it is proper to wear THCD (in the Lowlands of Scotland, at least.)

A friendly question for the Scots, and particularly Highlanders, on XMarks- Have you ever worn your kilt while golfing?

David

[Lallans]

Coz Forrester,

My moral umbrage continues to revolve around the fact that they sprang the no-kilts thing on you, a fellow clansman, without warning. Were you acting in bad faith to offend or make mockery of the club or its rules? Were you actually in unconscious violation of a rule? Of course not, and as their guest they owed you the benefit of the doubt. The letter to you has pretended that the no-kilts rule was there all along, or that it is so well known as to be understood, but both the rules as seen and your experience at other Scots courses show that their pretense is piffle. Myself I might decide to extend the 'piffle' status to the whole club and write them off in my book of those that count- but of course if you want to battle for the kilt to be specifically allowed, go to and good luck!

[McClef]

The secretary has clearly not addressed the fact that kilts being exluded when playing golf is not in the rules as they appear on their web page.

It is ignorant also of how other courses have no problem with the kilt and thus what he claims is far from standard practice.

An unsatisfactory and inconplete reply to your concerns.

[ForresterModern]

Jeff.

A small, but possibly important point that you might bear in mind, is that Troon is most certainly in Scotland, but not in the Highlands the home of the kilt, which may colour the club's point of view.

I understand your point, Jock, but then that does not explain the positive reaction at Turnberry (even further south than Troon) or Muirfield (still lowlanders and with a more snooty reputation than Troon as far as guests are concerned) who opened their doors without issue, and to some degree with pleasure and pride to have a kilted golfer on their courses. Carnoustie and the two St Andrews courses are more Highland (Fife) but still not in the heart of the true central or north highlands either, but being publicly owned courses it is understandable that their dress codes might be a wee bit less restrictive. But the Dukes is privately owned as is Kingsbarns, and neither of them are any further North than St Andrews, so really not classically in the Highlands either, with dress codes that did not seem to exclude the kilt as appropriate attire for a round there.

But thanks for the thoughts.

jeff