justification for underwear when kilted

[neloon]

Mike,
Not having ever had to decide whether or not to wear a bra and panties, I shall leave it to others to comment on that aspect of your post.
You suggest that there is a Scottish reaction on THIS forum to "underwear" with the kilt. I think we are somewhat exasperated at the world-wide Pavlovian reaction that goes "kilt ... titter, titter, nudge, nudge" and that's our national dress summed up.
But your picture of kilted Scottish soldiers also needs to be tidied up. It is true that, when the early kilted regiments were founded, the lowest ranks on active service wore nothing underneath possibly for economy but also for reasons of hygiene on the march due to the difficulties of drying clothes around the camp fire. (I have mentioned in another thread that my father owed his life at Cambrai to this practice.) The rule never applied to officers who bought their own uniforms and had better laundry facilities.
By 1915, however, all kilted soldiers had as part of their kit two pairs of wool "drawers, short" to be worn if the medical officer declared the temperature to be sufficiently low, or when the kilt was away being de-loused and when travelling home on leave. After 1940, of course, the kilt was not worn on active service so the rule ceased to apply and, at least since the early '60s, soldiers are left to make their own choice about undergarmenting.
Civilians do not see themselves as being on active service and therefore can equally make their own choice. In Scotland, it is a matter of very little importance and no "justification" for either choice is needed.
Alan

[Phil]

Mike,
Not having ever had to decide whether or not to wear a bra and panties, I shall leave it to others to comment on that aspect of your post.
Alan

You don't think he is a lumberjack perhaps? - http://www.lyricsdepot.com/monty-python/lumberjack.html

[Jock Scot]

Do you know I am not interested in what the Scottish Regiments did or didn't wear under their kilts, I am not interested in what Scotsmen past and present wear under their kilts and do you know, I am not interested in the least what the members of Xmarks wear under their kilts. However, I am interested in what I might, or might not wear under my kilt and frankly, that is none of any one's damn business, except perhaps, Mrs Jock.

[neloon]

You don't think he is a lumberjack perhaps? - http://www.lyricsdepot.com/monty-python/lumberjack.html

Alan

[Jock Scot]

You don't think he is a lumberjack perhaps? - http://www.lyricsdepot.com/monty-python/lumberjack.html

That's done it! I shall have that tune running around my little brain for days now.

[neloon]

That's done it! I shall have that tune running around my little brain for days now.

I suggest that it stays there, Jock, unless you are alone and far out in the hills!
Alan

[Geoff Withnell]

Jock,
You have this nasty habit of saying the most sensible thing in some of these threads. <Big Grin>.
My feelings exactly!

Do you know I am not interested in what the Scottish Regiments did or didn't wear under their kilts, I am not interested in what Scotsmen past and present wear under their kilts and do you know, I am not interested in the least what the members of Xmarks wear under their kilts. However, I am interested in what I might, or might not wear under my kilt and frankly, that is none of any one's damn business, except perhaps, Mrs Jock.

[McClef]

Even when it's done in jest, please remember this folks:

Rule #9
– This forum is not the place for the discussion of cross-dressing.

We would not want this discussion to end up as a dead parrot would we?

Thanks.

[Pleater]

My grandmother (Nana Tuvey) was brought up by her grandmother and was rather old fashioned in some things. Nana could just remember when Queen Victoria died.

As the oldest grandchild I used to wander off into the back of the house and see things which perhaps I should not have, a trait I have had all my life.

Nana died when I was away at college, and the rest of the family emptied the house. The linen underwear ended up as shelf liners in several houses. I suppose that when washed and ironed a strip of linen is just a strip of linen.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Mike_Oettle]

Phil and Neloon, your responses are simply puerile. It seems that your stock response to something you don’t understand or don’t want to understand is to pour scorn on it.
If you want to be like the lumberjack in the Monty Python sketch, be my guest and go right ahead. But it does not answer the discussion at hand.
You seem to have forgotten that Corinne (Copperhead) asked a question about what women should wear while also expressing curiosity about what men should wear.

And Jock Scot, your response disappoints me. Members of this forum are generally keen to cite the historical background of Scottish dress (or, in this instance, undress), but when it suits you, you seem to feel that the historical aspect is utterly irrelevant.
It is especially odd to me that while the forum members pay close attention to what the kilted regiments wear (or don’t) – and in this regard I particularly recall pictures shown of members of a Highland regiment passing over a mirror at their barracks door, as a means of ensuring that no squaddie goes on parade with underwear – you should arbitrarily decide what is relevant to a discussion.
I have no first-hand knowledge of Scottish regimental practices. But I am keenly aware of the approach of my own regiment, and its brother regiments based in Cape Town, Johannesburg and Pretoria.
I should emphasise also that I have not been in uniform since 1977, and have not been on parade in a kilt since 1973.
I am not arguing that military practice must necessarily be followed in civilian life.
But to deny that military practice is of any relevance at all is ostrich behaviour – that is to say, the behaviour of the proverbial ostrich, since real ostriches never stick their heads in the sand.

I also did not fully respond to Corinne’s question regarding the male need (as she put it) for support of the masculine organs.
It should be self-evident to the men on this forum that support is unnecessary except in circumstances where men take part in vigorous exercise (and even then I am not certain that it is always necessary).
The external sex organs are constantly changing their shape and size (that is to say, the penis expands and contracts, while the testes move closer to or further away from the body), and it is preferable that they be able to move freely.
In fact, wearing tight underwear is harmful to men in at least two ways: in keeping the testes constantly close to the body, they could well diminish the sperm count, while there is also a risk (in hot weather, at least) of rashes and fungal infections.
My own experience with fungal rashes led me to switch from skants to undershorts. (As mentioned before, this affects what I wear with trousers.)

Turning to women’s underwear, I am concerned at the influence the brassiere industry has over women, convincing them that every woman must have just the right bra, and that it is vital for every woman to wear a bra every day, all day.
In the 1950s and ’60s the industry encouraged women to wear bras that were far too tight. This became a medical statistic when vast numbers of women in the United States and Europe (and other parts of the world) contracted breast cancer. What the precise connection is, I am not sure, but the statistics bear this contention out.
Nowadays there is less emphasis on tightness and more on getting the right fit. Yet a great many women (out of igorance, perhaps) still wear bras that do not fit them properly.
Bras also homogenise the shape of a breast – when a woman has found a bra that fits her around the ribcage and approximately fits her breasts for size, she frequently has to endure bra cups that force her assets into the wrong shape. This, too, could be harmful.
My daughter has little beestings for breasts that do not shift about when unrestrained. But she firmly believes that it would be improper not to wear a bra, and so adds to the profits of the greedy brassiere industry.
She is also at pains to ensure that her nipples don’t stick out (she uses the term nipple stick). This is also due to a common belief that has no real justification that nipples are improper.
How can they be? Every human being (except for those unfortunates who have lost one or both) has two nipples. When they are cold, they stick out (whether male or female). While there is also the phenomenon of a nipple erection, it is virtually impossible to tell what the cause is, and (I would say) indecent to ask. Men are generally not bothered about this phenomenon. It is heartening to see that many women nowadays also pay little attention to this fallacy. Yet far too many women do adhere to it religiously, to little good.
(I am referring here to the visible shape of the breast under clothing, not the exposure of the breasts for whatever reason.)
Regards,
Mike