Identity in the Scottish Diaspora

[Taskr]

An interesting read of arguments of agreement, with some disagreement, as to who feels they are whom and should they.
I was born in another country, though registered of Cdn birth abroad. On entering that country, my birth place noted on passport, I have been welcomed home by the passport stamper. My name, going back 9 generations, is in a recorded history of the Scots immigrants and their descendants to Inverness Country, NS. My mother's work on genealogy has traced maternal and paternal lines, including the indigenous mix.
I'm Canadian. Was born a Canadian even though delivered in another nation state. Removed by more than one generation in any ancestral direction, I don't find any appeal to hyphenation. I might state a Canadian region, as in displaced maritimer or Albertan. When kilt wearing and asked about being a Scot, I will respond along the lines of, "my mother's heritage" and sometimes include "and father's Irish" even though he was from an Acadian consumption of that Irish bloke about 7 generations ago. Acadians and kilts might be overly confusing to some. I'm ok with it.
I wear clothes. Some of which includes a few kilts with appropriate additional attire to them. I wear one at least weekly because its comfortable and its as complimentary as the majority of my wardrobe. If someone doesn't like that, they are allowed their opinion. I've no need to explain myself nor the time to listen as to why I should not wear this or that. There are more important issues in the world.
For those of you who origin hyphenate; good on you. Own it and retain your pride. For those who do not; good on you. Own it and retain your pride. For those in both and either camp that have the time to let each other know why the other is wrong; are you still transiting from one or the other. All the best with your final, personal decision. Or maybe you're just vehement on your opinion; good on you. Own that and retain it, but have a wee bit of respect when reaching the point of agreeing to forever disagree. For all of us, might I offer that you be proud of who you are no matter how you define that, live well, serve in some way, and vote in whichever democracy you have that right
And should you be so inclined, wear a kilt.

[jfraser]

Do any of you believe - I do - that it is possible for your soul to be Scottish whatever your DNA or place of upbringing. (Jock can't be part of this because I don't think he believes in souls) I don't know how it would be - maybe reincarnation - oops, deep water here! But I used to chat (PM) on here with a US lassie who, as far a she knows, has no Scottish relatives, grew up in a non-Scottish environment yet what she knows and can say about Scotland with great dignity and understanding would put most on this site to shame. Gaelic, dancing, music - it's all there in correct balance. Yes, I expect she got a lot from books but she understood what it all really meant. It's a happy puzzle.

Alan

Sir Roderick (Rod) Stewart CBE, although born and raised in London , talks of Scotland as being his spiritual homeland. He even wears the kilt occasionally and by his fan base in Scotland, is readily accepted as a Scot by thousands. Maybe he is one of these Anglo Scots people? I known professional people with a high standard of education, born in Australia and New Zealand who also mention Scotland as their spiritual homeland and just get this feeling of home when being there.

[Reiver]

It's interesting for me to hear the current Lord Lyon on this subject:
https://vimeo.com/163536020

The most pertinent section is from 5:30-13:50.

I fully expect the naysayers here to pen a letter to Lord Lyon correcting him on his position on the diaspora so that he may issue a proclamation in their favor....I'm sure he must be confused on the subject. A veritable rookie.

[Liam]

I am a Calgarian, an Alberta, a Canadian, and my paternal ancestors were Canadian and Scottish. I do not nor never have referred to myself as Scottish-Canadian. My thoughts are that if you were born in Scotland, emigrated to Canada and became a Canadian citizen then it might be appropriate to refer to yourself as a Scottish-Canadian.
I was also born and raised in Saskatchewan and am a staunch Roughrider supporter.

[MGMorrison]

I am an American, but I wear the kilt occasionally and at family gatherings in remembrance of my father ( who was a Scot and from Harris) and, in remembrance of my mother ( a Graham) whose father was from the isles also.
My sons wear the kilt as well.
We wear this clothing not in any sense of being Scots, but out of pride that my mother and father had the courage to begin again here in the US.

Every time I put on my hose and brogues first I can here my dad's voice saying "that's right lad", and I found myself explaining this to my sons the first time they wore their kilts.
It is good to know from whence we came......

Mark Graham Morrison

[neloon]

Your opinion means more than many to me, being, I believe, from near the Sinclair end of Scotland.

Bill,
This made me sit back and think - XMarks has to be good for something. First, I had to tie down in my head where the Sinclair focus might be apart from "way up north"! You were a bit dispersed but I finally decided on Wick. Now, Scotland is a tiny country but that shouldn't make outsiders think we've all been everywhere. Wick is 198 miles away by road estimated to take 4.5 hours. Jock is 166 miles from Wick and it would take him 3 hours and 50 minutes. (And Jock and I are separated by 147 miles or 3.5 hours.) Anyway, I've never been as far north as Wick (in Scotland) and I don't remember being in Fort William within the last 50 years or so. I go southwards endlessly (Edinburgh, Glasgow and, especially, St. Andrews) and I do annually go to visit a friend over in Gairloch (165 miles = 3.75 hours). Anyway, thank you for valuing my opinion, but I don't think that has much to do with nearness to Sinclair lands.

Naturally in my researches I noticed how nomadic the Sinclairs were from Norway (where before that?) to France to southern Scotland to Orkney - almost back to the beginning. Did they, at each stage, hang on to their last roots?* Didn't stop them fighting Norway in the 1260s - a country they had left a few hundred years earlier. (They went on to roast a bishop live and were on the wrong(?) side at Culloden but we won't hold that against you!)

* Just to prove we're still on topic!

Alan

[Father Bill]

Alan, I love it! You're a good fellow to have here and a generous spirit which is why I feel free to tease a wee bit about your location. I hope you understood that intent.

Let's put it this way: You're a heck of a lot closer to those lands than I!

Cheers & Blessings,

Bill+


P.S. - Your post about having a "Scottish Soul" was of interest to me. I have a vague notional theory of what I've referred to from time to time over the years as "Blood Memory". My father's heritage always screamed in my ears although I've not much followed it, but Scotland also always hollered at me. My Grade eight project at age 12 was a 100 page booklet on Scottish history, tartans, and the various connections to Canada. I never knew why it spoke so clearly to me.

Dad's heritage I knew and loved, but my mother said her family was English, from Oxfordshire, something that little interested me despite my best attempts to cultivate it, but she too had a fascination with Scotland that she never explained. However, when I took the time and followed her maiden name back, it came to Caithness and the Orkneys, and the Sinclairs.

That was actually after I had been in Scotland. At the time, I couldn't figure out why, deep in my guts I felt as if I had finally come home when I was in Rosslyn, an experience that was actually the reason that I took the time to trace her name back.

It has been a gentle sense of satisfaction to finally know where that voice in my head may have come from, none of which I can explain, but I think your comment may be related.

Not overly salient; just interesting. Thanks for bringing it up.

Bill+

[MacKenzie]

Quite the entertaining thread.

First:

The point of this thread is the question: how one can claim a nationality without being a national? American without being American, for example. Since Scots generally speaking don't hanker after being anything other than Scottish, some here are seeking to understand the reason behind Americans (Canadians, Australians, whatever) wishing to claim another nationality than their own.

We don’t. It’s been made very clear that that quibble is over semantics.

And then we jump tracks.

We are in this thread discussing a completely different aspect-------genealogy-------in the hope of greater international understanding which should be informative to many members here.

And…

This rather desperate(sorry) clinging to the past is baffling to most over here.

And...

The puzzle is that, changing ALL to MOST, that's just about the situation in Scotland. But we don't care about it.

But, plenty of people in Scotland do care about their genealogy/ancestry/history/roots. They may be in the minority, but so might those that “don’t care”.


And finally the real rub for the Scots participating in this thread.

May I, instead, pick up on something David said a while back - that will be OK as we agree he is a gentleman and thick-skinned.
" Wow, I hadn't appreciated exactly what the population of Scotland is. I knew that in terms of geography it was about the size of South Carolina, but I'm struck by the fact that the population of North Carolina is almost twice that of Scotland."
Now, should this lack of knowledge bother us? I suspect it may not be atypical of XMarkers. The vast majority of XMarkers are US citizens who are, in a way, self-appointed ambassadors for Scotland in the US.

That’s a stretch, but thanks for the appointment… I think.

I wish you knew more about the real Scotland of today rather than what might be gleaned from dreamy ancestral echoes.

Quite an assumption there.

So, “All this banter about kilts and tartan and history is fine and dandy, but that’s not the ‘real Scotland of today’.”

This is a kilt forum.

[neloon]

So, “All this banter about kilts and tartan and history is fine and dandy, but that’s not the ‘real Scotland of today’.”

This is a kilt forum.

I can see your point but this thread is about the Scottish diaspora - not the "kilt diaspora". Of course the site title does nothing to resolve the confusion (even though we now seem to have discovered that it really means something like " X marks the descendant of at least one Scot"). So is the Scottish diaspora interested only in the paraphernalia of Scottishness and not the ‘real Scotland of today’?

Alan

[Father Bill]

So is the Scottish diaspora interested only in the paraphernalia of Scottishness and not the ‘real Scotland of today’?

Alan

Depends on which "diasporite" you're talking about! Personally, I want it all because to me, what you wear is greatly influenced by your understanding of the culture, the thought processes and the language and habits of the people.