Identity in the Scottish Diaspora

[MacKenzie]

So is the Scottish diaspora interested only in the paraphernalia of Scottishness and not the ‘real Scotland of today’?

Speaking only for myself, obviously, no. But this site is about the former and it's rules limit, if not altogether prevent, discussion about the latter*. So it shouldn't be assumed that "we" don't know or care about the Scotland of today.

*And that's fine with me. There are other venues for discussing politics and current events.

[davidlpope]

So is the Scottish diaspora interested only in the paraphernalia of Scottishness and not the ‘real Scotland of today’?

Alan

Paraphernalia, history, and traditional culture, yes. The rest of it is y'all's to deal with.

The reason is simple, though. My family's last direct connection to Scotland was 1880. Everything that comes after that is not my story.

[neloon]

Depends on which "diasporite" you're talking about! Personally, I want it all because to me, what you wear is greatly influenced by your understanding of the culture, the thought processes and the language and habits of the people.

Of course, as long as it's not "the people" of 200 years ago.

MacKenzie,
I wouldn't think of "the real Scotland of today" as being about politics. Me teasing Bill about road-miles is not about politics but I think it does say something about real Scotland. I don't think I have ever even hinted at current Scottish politics on this site but I am forever trying to open little windows on the way things are. As I have said before, it is a commonplace that people in small countries know more about large countries than vice-versa and I like to try to redress that imbalance.

David,
"not my story"
Well this goes back to my "you're ambassadors for Scotland" comment which Mackenzie wasn't very sure if he liked. If XMTS really means "X marks the kilt" then I think that implies that, in US eyes "kilt" = "Scot" (in some sense). Yes? Is that not what a passer by in the street assumes? If that is even occasionally so, then I do not see it as unreasonable to hope that your kilting will enhance Scotland's good name. If not, then you can see why the US is characterised in the rest of the world as only interested in itself.

Alan

[Reiver]

Quote Originally Posted by neloon View Post

So is the Scottish diaspora interested only in the paraphernalia of Scottishness and not the ‘real Scotland of today’?

Alan

I agree with David on this generally.

My interest is in the old historical elements of Scotland and not the politics or issues of today....that is yours alone obviously and I'd not hazard an opinion on what Scots should do except to be supportive and take the time to look at the issues you think important.

I read and collect books that historically cover Scotland from the earliest recorded events (currently "The Borders" by Moffat) thru the mid/late 1700's.

I've never met an individual that thought they 'were Scots' in the modern sense and all that entails. It is a historical connection (that dreaded lineage thing again) that is, in my family's case thanks to my cousin David, recorded back to the early/mid 1600's presently (in the borders btw so my adoption of a kilt is total thievery).

I find it interesting that you find lineage/genealogy to be silly yet have a peerage and individuals that do nothing but investigate lineage (Lord Lyon) for official and unofficial recording.

I have a caveat tho as I've thought more about this....we probably do invest some in Scotland of today if we keep up with the doings of our area of interest but generally as it relates to that as above.
I do follow what the Duke of Buccleuch does business and charity wise so there is that.

[neloon]

I find it interesting that you find lineage/genealogy to be silly yet have a peerage and individuals that do nothing but investigate lineage (Lord Lyon) for official and unofficial recording.

Most, and I really mean MOST, Scots want to get rid of anything hereditary but, you will understand, it is not in Scotland's control.

Alan

[Reiver]

Most, and I really mean MOST, Scots want to get rid of anything hereditary but, you will understand, it is not in Scotland's control.

Alan

Yes, I understand that. However, the other type of lineage we enjoy has nothing to do with that so how does that bleed over?

[neloon]

Yes, I understand that. However, the other type of lineage we enjoy has nothing to do with that so how does that bleed over?

Oh, it doesn't. I don't think we have ever said that individual US citizens should not be interested in their ancestry - only that few in Scotland are and therefore, culturally, we don't understand the need. That may be our loss. (I think I am fairly unusual in that I happen to know a lot about all 8 great grandparents.)

Alan

[Reiver]

Oh, it doesn't. I don't think we have ever said that individual US citizens should not be interested in their ancestry - only that few in Scotland are and therefore, culturally, we don't understand the need. That may be our loss. (I think I am fairly unusual in that I happen to know a lot about all 8 great grandparents.)

Alan

I don't think it a 'need' as many care not one whit. It appeals to my love of history ( I enjoy many historical subjects) and only got involved with this endeavor after I retired.
It may also appeal simply because our families did not stay put so there is a story involved. My lineage is not simply a he begat she who begat ... it is a collection of stories of common people.

e.g. "In one of the largest property transactions ever made in the colony Mr. Scott is to be congratulated on securing one of the finest young orange groves in the colony."
That was printed in the local paper in LA, California in 1887....if James Scott had hung on to that property we'd be flush as today it is part of downtown Los Angeles ....and cousin David has recorded stories of individuals all the way back to the borders in his 45 years of investigating.

[Jock Scot]

Oh, it doesn't. I don't think we have ever said that individual US citizens should not be interested in their ancestry - only that few in Scotland are and therefore, culturally, we don't understand the need. That may be our loss. (I think I am fairly unusual in that I happen to know a lot about all 8 great grandparents.)

Alan

I have said the very same type of thing as you in your post Alan and I don't know why-----and I say this with some seriousness-----it seems to me that our North American "cousins"( Oh how I loath that expression "Cousin" used in a general term, but it does seem to be alright when used in North America) are determined to misunderstand what you and I are saying! I do wonder if they understand our English? I have to admit I have been at pains to express myself as clearly as I am able and I have to say I understood completely what you have said on this thread and the "other" thread that started this discussion.

[Jock Scot]

Bill,
This made me sit back and think - XMarks has to be good for something. First, I had to tie down in my head where the Sinclair focus might be apart from "way up north"! You were a bit dispersed but I finally decided on Wick. Now, Scotland is a tiny country but that shouldn't make outsiders think we've all been everywhere. Wick is 198 miles away by road estimated to take 4.5 hours. Jock is 166 miles from Wick and it would take him 3 hours and 50 minutes. (And Jock and I are separated by 147 miles or 3.5 hours.) Anyway, I've never been as far north as Wick (in Scotland) and I don't remember being in Fort William within the last 50 years or so. I go southwards endlessly (Edinburgh, Glasgow and, especially, St. Andrews) and I do annually go to visit a friend over in Gairloch (165 miles = 3.75 hours). Anyway, thank you for valuing my opinion, but I don't think that has much to do with nearness to Sinclair lands.

Naturally in my researches I noticed how nomadic the Sinclairs were from Norway (where before that?) to France to southern Scotland to Orkney - almost back to the beginning. Did they, at each stage, hang on to their last roots?* Didn't stop them fighting Norway in the 1260s - a country they had left a few hundred years earlier. (They went on to roast a bishop live and were on the wrong(?) side at Culloden but we won't hold that against you!)

* Just to prove we're still on topic!

Alan

I spend quite a lot of time in the very North East of Scotland Bill. Its landmass is very different in character to the Highlands as are the general characteristics of the inhabitants there. I also went to college with Chief Malcolm.