Identity in the Scottish Diaspora

[Reiver]

David,
Your last contribution was excellent and I basically understood it. A couple of thoughts on the last para.



Yes, you are wild - we certainly notice that. I think I have previously called you a bunch of teenagers in reference to the relative ages of our countries - you don't listen properly, you slam doors, you deliberately misunderstand, you know it all and certainly think that we're condescending. Have teenagers ever thought you were being condescending even when you knew you were not?


Alan

That could of been written by an Englishman 3-400 years ago about the Scots....they appear to have been properly pacified

[Jock Scot]

Bill & Jumary.

I am really disappointed in your recent replies on this thread. As far as I am aware, no one has said anything about not wearing the kilt or who, or who cannot wear the kilt in Scotland or elsewhere in the world. That is not and has not been, the topic of conversation that this thread is about.

Your replies say to me that you have not "listened to" or understood what some of us are saying, or even attempted to answer Neloon's original question in the first thread that this tread has grown from. I have to say, that some kilt wearers outwith Scotland, who's insecurity, defensiveness and yes, desperation shows oh so clearly to us by suggesting that some contributors cease this very civilised conversation.

Now, it could be said that those of us from our point of view have not made ourselves clear in what we have carefully written and whilst that may be the case from your point of view, I really do think that you have not seriously read what has been said and not understood it either. Had you taken the time to do so, I really don't understand how you could say what you have just said.

I say this with the greatest of respect to you both in particular and all those that have contributed to this delicate topic.

[neloon]

That could of been written by an Englishman 3-400 years ago about the Scots....they appear to have been properly pacified

Scotland is generally thought to have been unified as a single country in 843AD
England (Angle-land) appeared around 927AD

Alan

[neloon]

I could say "Aye" to Bill and Jumary and others in some parts and "Aye" to Jock in others.
What am I to do?

Alan

[Jock Scot]

Carry on, carrying on. You are doing splendidly.

[neloon]

Jock keeps referring to MY original question and I don't know what that was. Here was my first contribution in the naive days of the old thread in answer to Bikehonda600 asking if an ancestor named McIntyre made him Scottish

"(This may sound very rude but I'm trying to be helpful.)

How can you possibly be Scottish - you are a US American and, as I understand it, you are not allowed joint citizenship with another nation. Despite its title, 99.99% of membership of this site are likewise not Scots. Of course, some fraction of their ancestry might be of Scottish origin and, before that, Viking, French, English, Italian, Polish ...
Concern with one's forebears seems to be a particularly US thing which we don't really understand in the UK - seems to be something to do with "roots". For example, an English person with one or both Scottish parents might subconsciously be aware of such descent but few would take note of a Scots grandparent or anything further back. Think of recent UK Prime Ministers with names like MacMillan, Home, Blair, Cameron - they would not be regarded by themselves or anyone else as anything but English. In the same way, although many Scots are of recent Irish extraction, they think of themselves only as Scots. And we have 100% Scots with surnames such as Patel, D'Agostino, Ng - our next door neighbour is a very patriotic member of the clan Mojsiewicz.
Most Scots have no concern about clans/families - they smack too much of feudalism for such a relatively left-wing country (no politics,please). So they would wear their clan tartan if they have a clan (generally by reason of surname) but that's about as far as it goes. They would probably know very little of their clan's history - why would they, what use would it be?
I'm afraid, if you want to be Scots, you have to be born in Scotland or live in Scotland. That does not, of course, preclude you from enjoying Scottish history, our national dress, our languages, music and culture generally and we are grateful for your interest and enthusiasm. Keep it up! "

Much water has flowed under the bridge since then clarifying some terminology but note particularly the last paragraph.

Alan

[Jock Scot]

Your first six words Alan of your post. Which was in reply to, I think, the previous post where the author in his penultimate line of his post unwittingly and quite innocently asked(post 7), ------"does this mean I am not Scottish"-------.

It is his assumption that he might be, is what we are questioning. Where did this idea come from?

[Reiver]

Scotland is generally thought to have been unified as a single country in 843AD
England (Angle-land) appeared around 927AD

Alan

...and yet....

[The Q]

Scotland is generally thought to have been unified as a single country in 843AD
England (Angle-land) appeared around 927AD

Alan

Carefully ignoring the fact that the Shetlands were not annexed to the crown until 1470
And the Royal control of the isles ( Hebridies including parts of the mainland) didn't happen until 1493

[neloon]

Your first six words Alan of your post. Which was in reply to, I think, the previous post where the author in his penultimate line of his post unwittingly and quite innocently asked(post 7), ------"does this mean I am not Scottish"-------.

It is his assumption that he might be, is what we are questioning. Where did this idea come from?

I think we've more or less resolved that now, Jock. It seems to be cross-pond different terminology. Are you wearing a vest or a waistcoat? Maybe both?lol:

Alan