Masonic Tartan

[Jerry]

My father and grandfather were Masons, but I'm not. So although it is a great looking tartan, it's one that I wouldn't wear either. My grandmother was also a member of The Eastern Star. Isn't that an auxillary of the Masons?

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Note to Moderators:

I know that this thread began with the Masonic Tartan and is still incorporating it into the mix, but even IF this goes off on a tangent (in parts), could you allow it to remain for a bit?

Much like Todd's information on the BlackWatch and other military organizations, I'm interested in the information that's being shared on the topic. It can be construed as relevant to the regional tartan wearing.

I realize that it's considered to be a "religious organization" to many, but as a kilt maker the tartan issues are important... just as are Military, regional, clan, Royal and family facts.

Thanks in advance.

[macwilkin]

Note to Moderators:

I know that this thread began with the Masonic Tartan and is still incorporating it into the mix, but even IF this goes off on a tangent (in parts), could you allow it to remain for a bit?

Much like Todd's information on the BlackWatch and other military organizations, I'm interested in the information that's being shared on the topic. It can be construed as relevant to the regional tartan wearing.

I realize that it's considered to be a "religious organization" to many, but as a kilt maker the tartan issues are important... just as are Military, regional, clan, Royal and family facts.

Thanks in advance.

Jimmy -- I certainly respect (and encourage) your quest for knowledge -- considering my employment in the "real world", I would be remiss in not doing so. It's folks like you that give us in the "information" business a lot of encouragement! ;)

That being said, I feel that this thread has the capacity to cause hurt feelings and harsh words, given the fact that many members of this board have strong feelings about the topic one way or the other. I think, as an Aussie friend of mine used to say, "we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable."

Much like the thread about the clergy tartan a couple of months ago, I think disussion of the Masonic tartan is germane, but not the wider topic of Freemasony in general.

Just my thoughts -- I will respect the decisions of the "mod squad" on this thread, no matter what it is.

Regards,

Todd

[Jimmy Carbomb]

Much like the thread about the clergy tartan a couple of months ago, I think disussion of the Masonic tartan is germane, but not the wider topic of Freemasony in general.

That one drove me NUTS too. There are SO MANY tangents in the tartans that without knowing them... you're doomed to mistakes. Ulster Red is a beautiful tartan, but you're really not going to recommend it to a guy from Cork. Clergy tartans (and there are many) can also be a Clarke tartan... and it was worth noting. There are numerous Stewart tartans... some to wear... some not to.

The masonic tartans have variations that I was not aware of... until now. Would I recommend it to a Catholic Priest or a Jehovah's Witness? No.

As with the Clergy thread, there's information that people need in order to "Know Your Tartan".

[sav]

OK, folks. First of all, my apologies for starting a thread that had the potential of getting out of hand. I didn't quite realize how strongly y'all felt on both sides of the issue. Jimmy, I certainly respect your want for knowledge in the area, but as Todd stated, the way this is going, someone's bound to end up with hurt feelings. We are all in this kilted journey together, and creating divisiveness where none existed previously is certainly not acceptable. I hope, as Todd said, we can "agree to disagree without being disagreeable." I would ask you, as author of this thread, to refrain from any further comment that does not directly relate to the subject of the aforementioned tartan. Thanks guys!

[macwilkin]

That one drove me NUTS too. There are SO MANY tangents in the tartans that without knowing them... you're doomed to mistakes. Ulster Red is a beautiful tartan, but you're really not going to recommend it to a guy from Cork. Clergy tartans (and there are many) can also be a Clarke tartan... and it was worth noting. There are numerous Stewart tartans... some to wear... some not to.

The masonic tartans have variations that I was not aware of... until now. Would I recommend it to a Catholic Priest or a Jehovah's Witness? No.

As with the Clergy thread, there's information that people need in order to "Know Your Tartan".

I agree, Jimmy, especially with your last sentence. I just want to caution everyone not to "fly off the handle here" and say something that might cause hurt or hard feelings (and Lord knows I've been guilty of that before!)

The first Masonic tartan mentioned here is the tartan of the Grand Lodge of Scottish Freemasons -- since they are authorizing others to sell it, I would say that it is an "open tartan", but most likely only those with masonic connections would choose to wear it.

There have been many famous Scottish Freemasons, including Robert Burns and John Paul Jones, just to drop a couple of names.

JerMc: yes, the OES is a "ladies auxillary" of the masons, although masons themselves may join as well.

Regards,

Todd

[Jimmy Carbomb]

I would ask you, as author of this thread, to refrain from any further comment that does not directly relate to the subject of the aforementioned tartan. Thanks guys!

I haven't been reading this thread as others have. I have absolutely no vested interest in the Masons... so any of the back-and-forth went ---===whizzing past me.

I'm catching the variances in the tartans that are available, the "who's in" with the organization, and the significance in the wearing. I'll let those who are members (and those who are not) take their conversations elsewhere.

For now, please continue to educate me on the:
1). significance of the Masons having a tartan,
2). significance in the purpose of regional tartans,
3). "should" a kilt maker NOT in the Masons be handling the material for kilts that may not be "authentic".

These are all questions that ANY kilt maker should know, and are all within the rules of XMarks. THESE and anything else that's relevant would be greatly appreciated.;)

[Bill]

Billmcc wrote:


In point of fact (in case anyone is interested) many Christian bodies either forbid their members to be Masons, or discourage it.

Among those Christian bodies that forbid members to be Masons are:
Catholics [the largest body of Christians world-wide]
Eastern Orthodox [the second largest body of Christians world-wide]
Lutherans [one of the largest groups of Protestants]
Most all Pentecostal, Holiness, and Assemblies of God denominations
The Church of the Nazarene
Christian Reformed Church
Quakers
Mennonites
Amish
Seventh-Day Adventist
Jehovahs Witnesses

While many of the more mainline Protestant denominations (Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians) have not expressly forbid lodge membership, many have condemned either the Masons in particular or secret societies in general in various non-binding statements.

For instance, in 1992, the Southern Baptist Convention (representing the laegest Protestant body in the US) voted to do a study of Freemasonry, and in their final report concluded that many tenants of Masonry were incompatible with Christian and Southern Baptist doctrine. But because of the way the SBC is structured, they left the decision of membership up to the individual. One can find similar non-binding statements coming from various Methodist and Episcopal bodies, as well.

So Ron's statement that he cannot be a Mason because he is not a Christian would strike many Christians as odd. It is estimated that three out of four Christians world wide belong to Churches that either expressly forbid or strongly discourage Lodge membership!

Aye,
Matt

Matt:

In my time I've known a good many upstanding Southern Baptist folk who were Masons not a few of them were Pastors. BTW my Uncle was a Mason, my Grandmother belonged to the Eastern Star. My Uncle offered to sponser me and because of some mis-conceptions I had at the time I foolishly turned him down (and probably hurt him deeply). The things I would change if I could...

Slainte!

Bill

[macwilkin]

For now, please continue to educate me on the:
1). significance of the Masons having a tartan,
2). significance in the purpose of regional tartans,
3). "should" a kilt maker NOT in the Masons be handling the material for kilts that may not be "authentic".

Jimmy,

Here is an article from the Sunday Herald about the Grand Lodge of Scotland tartan:

Masons tartan up their image




By Elizabeth Mistry



The Masons, once best know for secretive rituals, have comissioned their own tartan.
Details of the new design, which incorporates the traditional Masonic colours of thistle green, navy and gold were lodged with the World Tartan Register last year, meaning the new tartan can now be worn by any of the organisation’s eight million members worldwide.

The news comes as tartan designers and retailers report a boom in business, fuelled by an increase in summer balls, graduations and weddings.

The Masons are the latest organisation to opt for a tartan to promote their identity. According to Brian Wilson of the Scottish Tartan Authority, this is a growing trend for businesses and organisations. Companies which have already commissioned tartans include Aon, BP and American Express, which was founded by a Scot.

“Tartan is a tremendously unifying force. It is the only fabric in the world that denotes who you are, where you come from or who, in the case of military tartans, you work for.”

Scott Chalmers, managing director of Gaelic Group, a Glasgow-based highland accessories manufacturer, estimates that around 150 new tartans have been registered with the three main tartan organisations in the past year. His firm, which also produces software to check existing plaids or design a new tartan, was responsible for the masonic design.

“The Masonic tartan is very, very unusual in that the sett or number of colours is quite unique. It is an elegant, muted design,” said Chalmers.

Barbara Bittlewood, lecturer in sociology at Glasgow Caledonian University says that the increase in organisations ordering their own tartan is part of a trend to promote a softer image for corporate bodies.

24 August 2003

An article about the GLoS tartan and its symbolism appears on the Gaelic Themes web site:

http://masonicthemes.com/?p=content&id=tartan

So, it it's pretty safe to say that the GLoS tartan is "authorized" for Scottish masons, and for other masons in other jurisdictions, since all of the American Grand Lodges recognize the Grand Lodge of Scotland, for example.

The "Freemason's Universal" tartan appears to be an "open" tartan as well, created by the GL of Utah.

The Canadian one puzzles me, since there is no "Grand Lodge of Canada" per se -- each province has its own Grand Lodge, much as each American state does. ** EDIT -- On reading further on the site, it is the tartan of the Grand Lodge of Canada in the Province of Ontario, which is celebrating its 150th anniversary.

Cheers,

Todd

[sav]

Hi Jimmy! I don't propose to be an expert, but I'll at least attempt to answer a question or two. As far as the significance of the Masons having a tartan: my guess would be that because much of modern Freemasonry traces its roots to the British Isles, it would be natural for the masonic body in Scotland, the Grand Lodge of Scotland, to have its own tartan. Unlike in antiquity, many modern masons wear their membership "on their sleeve," so to speak. That is to say that one will see masons wearing the square and compass prominently, or displaying some other masonic affiliation. Thus, to have a masonic tartan is another way in which a mason can choose to display his membership. In the famous 19th century book, "The Clans of the Scottish Highlands," tartan is defined as: "Any of numerous textile patterns consisting of stripes of varying widths and colors crossed at right angles against a solid background, each forming a distinctive design worn by the members of a clan, or to announce membership in an organization, such as the Ancient Free-Masons." As you can see, freemasonry is no stranger to tartan, and to Highland dress. I hope this helps a little!
~Sav