Tailor (new member) asking for help

[ChattanCat]

Good tips, thank you! However, clarify for me please: if I deepen the pleats next to the aprons 15cm/4, meaning 3.5 off of each apron and 3.5 deepening of these two pleats, why would I have to eliminate pleats?

Thanks for the input everyone!

If you think of the kilt as segmented into thirds; 1/3 front apron, 1/3 pleats, 1/3 under apron. If the proprtions are not maintained then the front aprons will be smaller than the pleats. The apron edges will probably on the insde of the knee. When walking you will be kicking the apron edge towards the middle and opening up or folding over as your client walks.

Most traditional apron edges are tapered from the hips to the bottom edge about 1.5 inches. This allows the apron to rest on the outside of the knee and reduce the kickout of the apron while walking.

I make traditional kilts so my knowledge of non-traditional methods can not help you here. The Wizard of BC will help you more than I can. For instance, I use sewn in hair canvas and not fused.

[Pleater]

I used to do running repairs for amateur dramatics, not something for the faint hearted. Compromise is required, to have something to wear on the night. At least you still have time.

So 15 cm - 6 inches - in total too large - I never did go metric. That is the waist, when fastened as when worn, is 6 inches too large.

To be done by Friday!!

OK - Don't panic - what I would do is remove the waistband from the apron and under apron, then make each one smaller by 6 inches and increase the size of the under apron pleats to take up that amount.

You might have to reshape the edge of the apron on the left side, - first smooth it out to flat and then start over. (You probably knew that, just covering all the bases.)

Then check that the deeper under pleat lies correctly. By lifting or lowering the new inside fold a little higher or lower at the waist you draw in or push out the outer edge. I have to raise the fold up to 1/2 an inch on my kilts - but I have child bearing hips. You have a perfectionist, so you might need to use the trick to achieve perfection. Join the pleat to the waist gradually reducing the lifting or lowering to nothing at the outer edge of the apron.

Once you have that sorted you can refix the waist band - I would not cut off the extra waistband but fold it inside itself for possible use at a later date, expansion, repair - whatever.

It is not the ideal solution - but it is not a tartan fabric so the placing of the waistband and pattern is not relevant.

It will mean that the pleats are forming a larger percentage of the waist circumference than for a traditional kilt - but the fashion is for narrower aprons on non tartan kilts, and it is the fastest way to sort out the problem.

An alternative, though more of a fudge, is to have the apron cover some of the pleats on the right side, which - probably is only a bit less work, and if the narrow apron is acceptable, in the pinch you are in - no - I think the first option is going to be the most satisfactory in the long run. It might be possible to return the kilt for reworking at some time if all the fabric is still there.

If you really want to live dangerously, remove the entire waistband, and take out some of the pleats, remaking the seam, enlarge the under apron pleats each side to narrow the apron and under apron, and reattach the waistband. you could then retain the proportions of pleats to apron width at the waistband. The trick would be to perfectly match the sewing of the pleat where you joint the two halves.

I am really wickedly pleased that I don't have this problem to sort out, and wish you good luck with it.


Baroness Anne the mirthful of Fritterton on the Heath

[sydnie7]

[snip]. . . my punter payed a lot more money, in choosing the 8 meter version. . . Does anyone feel that the maker should fix this issue?

Most online kilt ordering sites I've seen have some disclaimer about the amount of material being dependent on the wearer's measurements. That said, if the maker offered both 7-meter and 8-meter pricing, accepted payment for an 8-meter kilt then delivered a 7-meter product, something smells fishy. And an unwearable 7-meter product at that!

I don't know what your credit card protection is like in Europe, but if something like this had happened to me in the U.S. I would:
1. Immediately dispute the charge with credit card company (to start the potential "I'm not going to pay for this unusable garment" process)
2. Make the least possible modifications to render the kilt usable for the immediate event
3. After the event, return the modified kilt to the maker for either complete rework or refund.

But that's me, and that's assuming some protection is available through the credit card company. If your friend didn't pay with a card, or the card company won't open a dispute on the transaction, and the maker has washed their hands of the matter, then it sounds as if you and your skills are his best hope. Lucky friend!

Best of luck
Sydnie

P.S. I'll be the first to ask. . . are you willing to post the name of the maker here, so that potential customers can know about the problems with this specific transaction?

[The Wizard of BC]

Also please remember we are talking here using two different methods of measuring. You have a 7 meter Kilt. But Kilt fabric is measured in yards.

I Know, I Know. it's insane but it is the system we live with.

Your 7 meter Kilt is equal 7.63 yards.

An 8 yard Kilt is made from APPROXIMATELY 8 yards of fabric. This is adjusted according to the depth of the pleat, (in a Tartan this is directly tied to the size of the Sett or one repeat of the Tartan pattern) the size of the person the Kilt is to fit, and the style of Kilt made.

As you have a machine sewn, solid color Kilt it is far closer in construction to what I make than the Traditional hand-sewn Kilts. So, I will see if I have some photos of the last re-build I did and I will post them with instructions. Possibly later today.

[Cutter]

First of all: I have an extra week. My mistake, my client is playing a week on friday, so I'm cool for now. Please, keep the ideas coming....

@Pleater: I think I get the idea. I'm not sure I want to go for your first suggestion. Good tips about raising the fabric edge though!

@Sydnie: I'm afraid I can't tell you who it was. Being in the trade, I know how easily things can go wrong when ordering online. Heaven forbid my clients start mailing me their measurements. Unfortunately, I wasn't there when he took the measurements.
Furthermore, I'm not the one having the issue, I'm just looking for advise. I feel it would be bad form to deride a colleague in somebody elses name. Besides that, I feel they may still come up with a solution today or tomorrow.

@Wiz......: Anxiously awaiting those pics! Oh, and eh... if a kilt is approximately 8 yards, does that mean the size is also approximately right?

In the end, I think my safest bet would be to take 1 4th off of each apron, and deepen each pleat adjacent by 1 4th. That should work, right?

[Canuck]

In the end, I think my safest bet would be to take 1 4th off of each apron, and deepen each pleat adjacent by 1 4th. That should work, right?

um not exactly...the pleats may not hang exactly correct. PM on it's way

[Pleater]

Oh a whole extra week - enough time to make a whole new kilt.

Is it your intention to cut fabric from the edges of the apron and under apron?

I'd advise against it if at all possible.

The kilt really should not be 6 inches larger than the wearer's waist, but ideally for made to measure should be just right when the buckles are fastened at the middle hole, with adjustment tighter and looser on the straps.

I make my own kilts with quite large under apron pleats - that is under both aprons, as that gives greater freedom of movement and the apron falls modestly when sitting down.

There is no need to remove any fabric, that is, cut it off, IF it can be put to good use in the under apron pleats.

If the maker should at some point offer to remake the kilt, if the aprons have been narrowed by cutting off fabric it might not be possible to take up that offer - and the aprons might be narrower than the 'normal' width of a traditional kilt.

I think that the usual situation is for there to be about two inches more pleats than apron when measured at the waist. So a 40 inch waist kilt would normally have 22 inches of pleats and 18 inches for each apron - though there are differences between makers, some making the proportions more or less, some making the aprons not quite the same width.

The ideal solution could be for some pleats to be removed from each side of the back seam, if it could be done without spoiling the material - perhaps unfusing the lining with steam first, so that the length of pleats is reduced to what would be the standard length of the true waist size. The aprons could then be reduced to the correct width, with the buckles restored to their original places.

The problem would be sewing the joining pleat down so it looks identical to the rest.

The maker really should not have put you in this situation in the first place - where is the quality control?

Baroness Anne the mirthful of Fritterton on the Heath

[The Wizard of BC]

I make machine sewn kilts very similar in construction to the one you describe so perhaps if I describe what I do to re-size one of my own kilts when a customer loses a lot of weight it will help you to understand the process.

To insure that the aprons continue to look and hang correctly measure the apron and re-mark as necessary using the following criteria.

The apron at the waist should be slightly larger than half the waist measurement.
The apron at the hip should be slightly smaller than half the waist measurement.
By slightly I mean approx the width of one pleat.
The edges of the apron should form a slight "S" curve. Straight from the waistband to the top strap - then flaring out to the hip - and continuing down to the hem. This curve is to allow the apron to lay flat when standing and walking and not curl outwards.

Now to the size adjustment.

The way I resize a Kilt is similar to the way the kilt was originally made. Imagine that you have the kilt laying out without the pleats pressed in or the aprons folded. You will have a long piece of fabric with a join in the middle. If you wanted to make your piece of fabric shorter you could un-stitch the join and move one piece of fabric over and re-join instead of cutting somewhere else and creating two joins.

1. Remove the three straps and their buckles and put them aside.

2. Remove the waistband by un-stitching it. Set the waistband aside.

3. Measure the aprons and adjust their size if necessary. The adjustment is done by finding the center of the current apron and measuring from the center outwards to each side.
If you need to adjust the size of the aprons a significant amount you may also need to remove the fringe on the right side of the outer apron.

4. Using your customers waist measurement you need to calculate how much to remove from the kilt.
Take the customers waist measurement and subtract the width of the apron. Then measure that amount along the pleated part of the kilt. This will tell you how many pleats you are going to remove.

5. When you are ready you need to un-stitch the pleats of the kilt near the current join in the fabric. You may need to un-stitch the pleats for quite away due to the overlap in the tapered area. Once you are able to lay the fabric out and look at the current join you will understand how the join is done you are ready to make the size adjustment.
Take caution here as you want to sew the kilt back together so that the join of your pieces is not noticeable. You can look at the existing join to see how this is done. Then un-stitch the existing join.
You will now have two pieces of kilt. One with the under apron and some pleats and one with the outer apron and some pleats.

6. I find it helpful to un-stitch and iron out the creases of the pleats I am removing so that I can align the fabric where I will join the kilt back together.

7. I also find it helpful, to avoid a mistake, to pin the kilt together at the join and temporarily fold the pleats back into place. This way I can measure the kilt to insure it is the correct size and to insure that my join is in the correct place.

8. Once you confirm the kilt is the correct size you can sew a new join into the fabric. This will result in a section of fabric that is excess at the join. This excess can be cut away and saved for your customer to use if the kilt ever needs to be let out again or if they wish to make flashes.

(A hint on measuring the kilt to confirm the correct size. --- Measure the Kilt along the line where the straps and buckles are located. Measure from the right edge of the outer apron (where the fringe is) across the back of the kilt to the right edge of the under apron. Because the outer apron overlaps the under apron you do not measure both aprons just the width of outer one and the width of the pleats.)

9. You can now put the kilt back together. Simply sew the pleats back down in the same location that they were originally.

10. Re-install the straps and buckles.

11. Re-install the waistband.

You stated that you have the skills to handle this job so I am assuming that if the general process is described and you have a chance to look at how the kilt was originally made you will be able to figure out how to re-size this one.
If you have any more questions please feel free to send me an e-mail to
steve@freedomkilts.com
or you can send me a Private Message via this forum.

Good luck.

[Pleater]

The description of the problem kilt includes the information 'fused canvass' which possibly means that the pleats are glued to the reinforcing fabric - and although it is possible to unglue, it can make adjustment of the pleats a real pig of a process.

There is always some glue left on the material so you can't press without sticking the pressing cloth to the work, and the stiffening effect of the glue tends to make permanent folds.


Baroness Anne the mirthful of Fritterton on the Heath

[Cutter]

@Pleated: Indeed, the fusing is likely to cause problems. Besides, my client already spent a lot of money on this kilt, and I really want to try to keep my hours minimal.

@Wiz:
Re: point 4: If I understand correctly, I'd have to take out all the pleats, yes? Aside from the time it takes, I'm loathe to go that far, simply for not having knowledge of, or experience with, kilts. Plus, the fusing issue.

re: point 5 and onward: Here it seems to me, you intend for me to remove only pleats from the center back, am I right? That I can handle. However, logic tells me that I would have to remove half the oversize from the aprons, and the other half from the center back. I'm confused, because with 16cm pleats, I'd have to take out 8cm center back, which leaves me with one pleat, center back, of a mere 8 cm. That can't be right.

Truth be told, I'm really always thrown off by pleats. I'm a gents' tailor. I'd post a picture, but I don't know how....

Do you think, Oh Revered Wiz, you would be able to supply me with a picture, or even just a sketch, of how to do it?