Wedding attire ideas brainstorming…

[Liam]

Thank you for the idea. I have a seal fur sporran that might work, though I would love a full mask badger sporran, the fiancée on the other hand is not so inclined.

I think a seal fur sporran is very traditional and appropriate.
The other thought I have is don't over think it. Your Father would be proud of you regardless. Make sure you you understand the timeline to have the tartan woven and kilts made.
And Slainte
Liam

[OC Richard]

Your tartan is beautiful!

...McIan...

...MacLeay...

...a Prince Charlie...the Sheriffmuir...

I just want to point out that you have brought up three quite different animals:

1) the McIan drawings strike me as generic models dressed in fanciful costume, many of which would be viewed as historical at the time of their painting in 1845. (Note the goofy mix of mid-18th century features with mid-19th century ones.)



2) the MacLeay paintings are painstakingly accurate portraits of specific men, painted in the 1860s from life.



3) the Prince Charlie and Sheriffmuir appeared in the early 20th century, as part of a near-complete transformation of Highland Dress which included several new Evening jacket styles, and a complete overhaul of sporran styles.



#3 above was the genesis of "traditional Highland Dress" as it's come down to us.

#2 above would be considered historical Highland Dress, due to Highland Dress continuing to evolve after the MacLeay portraits were done.

I would consider #1 above to be neither historical nor traditional Highland Dress, but rather costume.

My point, which I don't seem to be very good at getting at, is that these are three irreconcilable things (in my opinion).

I would first decide whether I was doing a wedding using fantasy costume, historical dress, or traditional dress. (There are grey areas, and I've been know to skirt these myself!)

I too am a big fan of the MacLeay portraits, and have spent considerable time studying them. I've posted closeups of all the MacLeay sporrans, and examples of similar styles "in the flesh". I'll point out that I've often heard the dress seen in the MacLeay portraits dismissed as being absurdly elaborate, this charge evidently made by people who haven't taken the trouble to look at the paintings.

I say this because many of the MacLeay portraits show a very plain Highland Dress, with utterly plain ordinary brown or grey jackets, not the sort we could consider "Highland" at all, and the dress lacking things we take for granted like garter flashes, sginean, kilt pins, and cap badges. For some reason the fact that many of the subjects have a plaid tossed over their shoulder blinds people to these facts.

[Profane James]

I love the look of the really long sporrans - extending lower than the kilt.

[OC Richard]

I love the look of the really long sporrans - extending lower than the kilt.

It's long been the way, from the 2nd quarter of the 19th century to now.

Here are modern soldiers- the Pipe Major and Drum Major, always two of the best-dressed men in the battalion- wearing the sporrans extending beyond the kilt.



The idea that the sporran should end at the bottom edge of the kilt is entirely modern and flies in the face of tradition.

[Profane James]

It's long been the way, from the 2nd quarter of the 19th century to now.

The idea that the sporran should end at the bottom edge of the kilt is entirely modern and flies in the face of tradition.

IMO, Looks better with the natural taper at the bottom, rather than the sharp corners. Again, IMO, with the sharp corners, it would look better at the same length of the kilt - otherwise suggest it is being worn too low.
Do you have any old photos of these long sporrans with the natural tapering at the bottom being worn?

[OC Richard]

IMO, Looks better with the natural taper at the bottom, rather than the sharp corners.

I'm with you, the thing about trimming the bottom straight across is a recent military thing, which I don't care for. Odd how the army can be so "retro" in so many things, but at times will go for something completely new and strange.

Do you have any old photos of these long sporrans with the natural tapering at the bottom being worn?

Hundreds of them. Long hair sporrans were standard in all modes of Highland Dress (civilian Day Dress, civilian Evening Dress, and military uniform) from the time they evolved in the early 19th century up to the complete overhaul of Highland Dress in the early 20th century. This left long hair sporrans only worn in military Full Dress, abolished in 1914, though they survived in Levee Dress, Full Dress as worn by some bandsmen, and in civilian pipe band costume.

Long hair sporrans mid-19th century. The one of the left is trimmed, the one on the right ends in the indistinct wispy way one often sees then. Note the sporrans go all the way to the tops of the hose, covering the knees.



Typical civilian Highland Dress of the third quarter of the 19th century





And the "riotous finery" of high Victorian Highland evening costume. Outfits precisely like this were captured by MacLeay, and today are routinely dismissed as being figments of the artist's imagination. Funny how MacLeay's eye, and cameras of the same period, recorded exactly the same things, yet nowadays people reject the paintings as fantasy while pretending the photographs don't exist.

By the way note that the jacket is rather plain, seen time and again in period photographs and MacLeay.

[NPG]

Your tartan is beautiful!

I just want to point out that you have brought up three quite different animals:

1) the McIan drawings strike me as generic models dressed in fanciful costume, many of which would be viewed as historical at the time of their painting in 1845. (Note the goofy mix of mid-18th century features with mid-19th century ones.)

2) the MacLeay paintings are painstakingly accurate portraits of specific men, painted in the 1860s from life.

3) the Prince Charlie and Sheriffmuir appeared in the early 20th century, as part of a near-complete transformation of Highland Dress which included several new Evening jacket styles, and a complete overhaul of sporran styles.

OC Richard,

Thank you, I am very happy with that Tartan. It has gone to weaving so I'm even more excited to get the final product.

Forgive me for my unintentional conflation of McIan and MacLeay, I did not mean to suggest the depictions were comparable. For me, these were the earliest images I had of highlanders. While I came to realize later that McIan was fanciful depictions in some cases of long dead clan progenitors (I'm thinking of the MacDonald of the Isles image here). I guess I was just setting the stage for why my tastes might be a little different than others.

When it comes to MacLeay, I tend to see it as mostly historical, but I recognize my ignorance on the subject. I'll be honest since my original post I have done a little more searching, and come across many of your posts utilizing MacLeay's imagery. While I've come away with a little better understanding I'm still not sure I have a good enough understanding to incorporate aspects of this style into my wedding attire or even sure I should.

Which brings me to one of the reasons I am happy you commented here, if one wanted to try for a style similar to that seen in MacLeay, what would you recommend? You mentioned the plaids seem to blind people to the elements of historical highland dress, what elements if any do you think it is possible to incorporate with out crossing over into costuming or reenactment.

Thanks,
NPG

[IsaacW]

what elements if any do you think it is possible to incorporate with out crossing over into costuming or reenactment.

This is a tough question as you will get varied opinions. Personally, I love a more vintage/historical look. The looks in MacLeay, have many parts that continue on to the present in terms of traditional and acceptable. Some items are less "acceptable" by some, but can be pulled off (in my opinion) without looking costumey. Patterned (tartan) hose with daywear, hair sporrans in the same situation, boots, etc. are examples of this.

Here is a recent shot of me following the lines of MacLeay, with a hair sporran and tartan hose with daywear....

[NPG]

This is a tough question as you will get varied opinions. Personally, I love a more vintage/historical look. The looks in MacLeay, have many parts that continue on to the present in terms of traditional and acceptable. Some items are less "acceptable" by some, but can be pulled off (in my opinion) without looking costumey. Patterned (tartan) hose with daywear, hair sporrans in the same situation, boots, etc. are examples of this.

Here is a recent shot of me following the lines of MacLeay, with a hair sporran and tartan hose with daywear....

IsaacW,

Thank you for your comments and your picture. That is a great look. I love the sporran and the jacket and waistcoat are gorgeous.

[Alan H]

I shudder at the thought of the cost of a custom weave of a new tartan, with enough material made to make your kilt, the plaid you are considering wearing, possibly a waistcoat...

and enough for highlights, like perhaps a sash for the bride...

and even more to be scattered amongst the guests and used for favors at the table. But it will be lovely. I hope you have a wonderful day of it!