I picked up a second-hand P.C. What else do I need to buy to make the outfit work?

[Jock Scot]

............ although there are many in the "rabble" who would ardently disagree.

Indeed they will. Why? Two main reasons, the pipe band and hire company influences and a third, ignorance. The first two reasons have absolutely nothing to do with traditional highland civilian dress(THCD) and the third probably cannot be helped, because if you don't know then, well, you don't know.

[OC Richard]

I noticed that all six of these men are wearing a version of Ghillie Brogues (even the gent with the buckles) with the long laces tied up the lower leg. Personally, I like what they add to a formal outfit...

It's strange, Ghillie Brogues. Where did they come from? How did they evolve? Where do they fit in Highland Dress?

I don't know any of these things, despite all the looking around I've done.

By far the largest collection of Victorian full-colour images of men in Highland Dress is The Highlanders Of Scotland, showing over 50 men in the late 1860s.

A dozen men are wearing Ghillies, and all but one pair are tan rough-out leather. The implication is that the Ghillies were thought of at that time as rustic rural shoes.

There is one pair of black Ghillies, and they have silver buckles.

Victorian photographs show us that black Ghillies both with and without buckles were not uncommon. And then, as now, they're more likely to be worn by pipers than by non-pipers. (By the way Ghillies have always been a purely civilian style and not worn in the military.)

By the 1930s Ghillies had moved indoors and become a standard Evening Dress shoe, shiny black with silver buckles.

Today we associate Ghillies with civilian pipers and pipe bands, but this is a recent development. As late as the 1960s wearing Ghillies in pipe bands was unheard of. Civilian pipe bands wore either military-style Full Dress which included spats, or civilian Evening Dress which included full tartan hose and buckled brogues.

As far as I can tell it was top-level Canadian pipe bands that introduced Ghillies, in the 1970s. They were worn with the heavy hand-knit offwhite Arran hose, which nicely showed off the laces. Within a decade the entire civilian pipe band world had ditched the uncomfortable and expensive Full Dress and Evening Dress and gone to the new pipe band look of black Ghillies, Arran hose, and black Argyll jackets.

Coinciding with the pipe band world embracing Ghillies was the rise of the Kilt Hire Industry, which likewise jumped on the offwhite hose + black Ghillies as a cheaper alternative to full tartan hose and buckled brogues.

I did some research and I discovered that both the UK Kilt Hire industry and the US formal wear industry didn't take off until the 1970s. I believe that Kilt Hire had a tremendous impact on Highland Dress, popularising the now-familiar Prince Charlie + black Ghillies + offwhite hose + black leather sporran look. (Prior to 1970 leather sporrans were strictly Day Dress and were brown.)

So that's the story as far as I know it.

To myself Evening Dress has always called for, and still calls for, an Evening sporran, full tartan or diced hose, and buckled shoes. I've not embraced the 1970s Kilt Hire makeover of Highland Dress as being "traditional Highland Dress" and I don't think I'm alone in that.

That being said, if I were to wear selfcoloured/solid/plain hose with Evening Dress I wouldn't wear white or offwhite. I'd go with a darker colour.

Time for pretty pictures!

Roughout tan Ghillies in the 1860s, by MacLeay



A rare photo of rough tan ghillies, part of Royal fancy dress



Black Ghillies in Victorian times, in Oban



Evening Dress shoe options in a 1936 catalogue



The City Of Dundee Pipe Band in the 1950s showing the typical civilian pipe band use of Evening Dress; note the buckled shoes



A Grade One Canadian pipe band in 1979 showing the nascent ghillies + Arran hose + black Argyll piper thing.



A California pipe band in 1979, note that only one piper is wearing Ghillies

[McMurdo]

OC Richard, this is a photo of my old pipe instructor Ron Rollo who sadly passed away in 2011, this photo was taken in 1971 at the Maxville Highland games the band was well known here named Caber Feidh. Notice the Argyll hose



Another photo showing the Buckle Brogues and how cool this band was


Myself and Ron at the Fergus Games about 10 years or so ago


Here is his obituary
https://www.pipesdrums.com/article/ron-rollo-1937-2011/

[KennethSime]

I did some research and I discovered that both the UK Kilt Hire industry and the US formal wear industry didn't take off until the 1970s. I believe that Kilt Hire had a tremendous impact on Highland Dress, popularising the now-familiar Prince Charlie + black Ghillies + offwhite hose + black leather sporran look. (Prior to 1970 leather sporrans were strictly Day Dress and were brown)...

To myself Evening Dress has always called for, and still calls for, an Evening sporran, full tartan or diced hose, and buckled shoes. I've not embraced the 1970s Kilt Hire makeover of Highland Dress as being "traditional Highland Dress" and I don't think I'm alone in that.

Richard, would you mind indulging me a bit here?

You mentioned the evening sporran a bit in your first response here, and I wonder if I can pick you brain a bit. Is there anything you'd consider an evening sporran which doesn't necessarily contain fur, or a pelt of some kind? I know there are faux-fur options out there, but personally I'd prefer to stay away from even those. If the answer is no, that's ok, and I'm ready to accept that I may just not blend with THCD in this case.

Specifically, I've been looking at a leather dress sporran such as this or that form USA Kilts, and I'm currently bidding on a vintage version of this sporran which I'm hoping might do ok as a dress sporran, and offer a bit of a victorian aesthetic, similar to one Glen posted earlier in the thread (although a bit louder I think).

[KennethSime]

Ok folks, here's the first picture of the kit in progress. Pardon the link - I tried to post here on the forum, but it I couldn't figure out how to resize appropriately.

Featured are the vintage $50 P.C., my new RRS Kilt (which rises quite high), and a vintage 70s-era Horsehair sporran that I picked up for about $50 also.

Can I get some feedback on the sporran? Does it pass for evening wear?

I rather like the look, though I think I should pickup so mane & tail conditioner. I think it's hanging a bit low, causing a bit of a bunching effect on the kilt - wish I'd caught that before changing.

From here, I'll need to pickup a more appropriate shirt and a bowtie, and of course the black oxfords (I have a pair in brown, and will pickup the black ones soon). At that point, I think I'll be passable.

[Touchstone]

Richard, would you mind indulging me a bit here?

You mentioned the evening sporran a bit in your first response here, and I wonder if I can pick you brain a bit. Is there anything you'd consider an evening sporran which doesn't necessarily contain fur, or a pelt of some kind? I know there are faux-fur options out there, but personally I'd prefer to stay away from even those. If the answer is no, that's ok, and I'm ready to accept that I may just not blend with THCD in this case.

Specifically, I've been looking at a leather dress sporran such as this or that form USA Kilts, and I'm currently bidding on a vintage version of this sporran which I'm hoping might do ok as a dress sporran, and offer a bit of a victorian aesthetic, similar to one Glen posted earlier in the thread (although a bit louder I think).

[I've tried to do my due diligence on the question I'm asking, done a fair amount of searching; but the amount of material on this site is bewildering! Hoping that I've not re-asked a question for the millionth time ...]

What's the definition of a true formal sporran? The consensus seems to be, at a minimum: there should be a cantle of a silver-colored metal; and visible leather should be black. Is there more?

Like the original poster, KennethSime, I'm hoping for a sporran that's suitable for evening formal wear, but doesn't have fur. The horsehair and similar ones are a little showy for me at this stage in my kilt development. The first two above seem fine to me - they're all leather, silver-cantled, and both have tassels. Is there agreement that these are full-up, real, formal sporrans? Is the tassel a requirement? I ask because I have ...

HSTB dress sporran 440x533.jpg

I've seen this style described as semi-formal (e.g., on J. Higgins site); fully formal (Kinloch Anderson's, where they say "This is the perfect sporran ... for a Formal Black Tie Event.". Hard to argue with KA, but ...); or some variation on the term "pipe-band" (which I suppose means you can wear it any time, as long as you're willing to carry a set of pipes).

Also like the original poster, I'm willing to flout convention slightly if I must, but I really would like to have one full-up THCD formal kit available.

[KennethSime]

That's super! A man after my own heart...

Richard, you're informative as always. Quite useful, and I especially appreciate the vintage catalogue pictures. Thank you.

[Father Bill]

You do know, Kenneth, that when you have your kit all put together, we want pictures of it, with you in it. Lots of pix!

[KennethSime]

You do know, Kenneth, that when you have your kit all put together, we want pictures of it, with you in it. Lots of pix!

Hah! Pictures? Isn't that what Facebook is for? :-)

I think I'm almost there for smart daywear, but the P.C. kit will take some time, I think - better to buy quality that'll last than to throw something together quickly.

[Jock Scot]

Hah! Pictures? Isn't that what Facebook is for? :-)

.............., but the P.C. kit will take some time, I think - better to buy quality that'll last than to throw something together quickly.

Very wise.