To the Forum regarding the XMTSAS Saltire

**azwildcat96** · 22nd January 11, 05:32 PM

I call B*LL SH*T!

I was not yet a member here when the Saltire was created. But I am entitled to an opinion. This wee airship may have been created by an individual, but its travels made it a part of this forum, and as such it is a rotten thing for that individual to decide to retire it.

I would strongly suggest that the current forum owner or moderators commission a replacement XTMS Saltire and let it continue the journey.

**Nighthawk** · 22nd January 11, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by azwildcat96

I call B*LL SH*T!

I was not yet a member here when the Saltire was created. But I am entitled to an opinion. This wee airship may have been created by an individual, but its travels made it a part of this forum, and as such it is a rotten thing for that individual to decide to retire it.

I would strongly suggest that the current forum owner or moderators commission a replacement XTMS Saltire and let it continue the journey.

Well, I had the same reaction. I don't understand the reasons at all. It seems to me that the little blue blimp is as relevant a symbol of the forum today as ever- even more so because she's been to so many of us! And so many more of us, including newer members, want the opportunity to be a part of her voyage! She has been a big unifying part of this community, and the way I see it, the newer members are even more reason for her to continue her voyage! I didn't my great great grandfather's thistle lapel pins- I continue to wear it generations later! Something heirloom quality gets passed down from generation to generation! Why cheat the newest generation of the X Marks clan out of this particular heirloom?

Said my peace. Here's my favorite picture from when I had briefly had her in Colorado. This is my buddy Garion of the Renaissance Scots Living History Association:

**Mike_Oettle** · 23rd January 11, 01:07 PM

Well, folks, I disapprove of Azwildcat’s language, but I do agree with him and DownunderKilt that retiring the Saltire is somewhat premature.
I understand that Jamie wants to be less involved in X Marks, but I cannot see why the Saltire can’t continue its travels.
And whatever you gents want to say about its “around the world” travels, it has certainly not been around the world.
In fact, Zardoz’s remark about travelling outside Texas being international only underlines the insularity of the whole thing.
We need a symbol like the Saltire to emphasise the internationality of X Marks, and parking it permanently at Bicknell Grange is not going to do that (nor will keeping it at Jamie’s house).
Regards,
Mike

**CDNSushi** · 23rd January 11, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mike_Oettle

Well, folks, I disapprove of Azwildcat’s language, but I do agree with him and DownunderKilt that retiring the Saltire is somewhat premature.
I understand that Jamie wants to be less involved in X Marks, but I cannot see why the Saltire can’t continue its travels.

Mike, the reason is, from what I can tell, that Jamie never intended for the Saltire to become communal or forum member property. It is, and always was his own, personal property, with which he has full rights to dispense or dispose of at his sole discretion -- something he has clearly chosen to do in a particular way.

Not that I agree, but let's think this through to its logical conclusion. Had the Saltire "succeeded" in visiting all the world's continents, then what? Jamie would still have the option of EITHER displaying the airship and logbook in his own home, or donating it to Hamish or Steve or someone in order for other members to see and visit.

I have some ideas that I would also like to contribute to the future of a similar project, but I think a new thread might be in order for that.

EDIT: Done. http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...estions-63951/

**Downunder Kilt** · 23rd January 11, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by CDNSushi

Mike, the reason is, from what I can tell, that Jamie never intended for the Saltire to become communal or forum member property. It is, and always was his own, personal property, with which he has full rights to dispense or dispose of at his sole discretion -- something he has clearly chosen to do in a particular way.

I think jamies intentions are quite clear in a "Flight of the Saltire" posting by Jamie on 28 April 2009

"It is always nice to have her return home, but the Saltire and the goodwill she spreads belong to all the good members of X Marks the Scot.com.

May she continue to travel far in friendship!

Cheers

Jamie"

Clearly Jamie's intent at that time was that the Saltire belonged to all members and that its home port was where he lived. Just as all vessels (air, sea, land) have a home port

**macwilkin** · 23rd January 11, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Downunder Kilt

I think jamies intentions are quite clear in a "Flight of the Saltire" posting by Jamie on 28 April 2009

"It is always nice to have her return home, but the Saltire and the goodwill she spreads belong to all the good members of X Marks the Scot.com.

May she continue to travel far in friendship!

Cheers

Jamie"

Clearly Jamie's intent at that time was that the Saltire belonged to all members and that its home port was where he lived. Just as all vessels (air, sea, land) have a home port

Perhaps we should late Jamie himself answer this, rather than trying to answer for him.

I appreciate the fact that you and Mike would like to see the Saltire visit Australia & South Africa. I personally liked the suggestion of a Saltire flag to replace the wee airship, or maybe even a commemorative quaich, inscribed with a sentiment and so forth, that could symbolize the tradition of offering a wee dram to a guest at your threshold when entering your house.

Some mentioned that flags become dirty and frayed -- remember that the most treasured flags, regimental standards, are dirty and frayed, given their long and storied records in combat -- regimental colours are frequently retired to chapels, museums, etc. I rather like the idea of an XMarks colour being retired somewhere after its "service" in friendship.

Respectfully,

Todd

**azwildcat96** · 23rd January 11, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mike_Oettle

Well, folks, I disapprove of Azwildcat’s language, but I do agree with him and DownunderKilt that retiring the Saltire is somewhat premature.

I actually resisted posting the night that I first read the OP, as I was pretty upset. My post was toned-down, and self-edited for language, as compared to what I was really feeling.

Fact is, that this appears to be a slap in the face of every X-Marks member that still calls this forum "home". I didn't host the Saltire, nor did I want to, but I did enjoy reading the posts, and seeing the photos associated with it.

This is why I suggested that the forum owner, or moderators, or other craftsman here create a new version to start new adventures and journeys.

**macwilkin** · 23rd January 11, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by azwildcat96

I actually resisted posting the night that I first read the OP, as I was pretty upset. My post was toned-down, and self-edited for language, as compared to what I was really feeling.

Fact is, that this appears to be a slap in the face of every X-Marks member that still calls this forum "home". I didn't host the Saltire, nor did I want to, but I did enjoy reading the posts, and seeing the photos associated with it.

This is why I suggested that the forum owner, or moderators, or other craftsman here create a new version to start new adventures and journeys.

Respectfully, though, if you believe that Jamie intended this as a slap in the face, then you really do not know Jamie/Panache, who is one of the most respectful people I know. CDNsushi's post above is spot on when it comes to the Saltire. As a former Moderator when the Saltire was commissioned, it was never officially sanctioned by the old forum owner -- it was Jamie's idea and Jamie's efforts that got her flying in the first place. Therefore, I stand by his decision to retire her.

T.

**Zardoz** · 23rd January 11, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Respectfully, though, if you believe that Jamie intended this as a slap in the face, then you really do not know Jamie/Panache, who is one of the most respectful people I know. CDNsushi's post above is spot on when it comes to the Saltire. As a former Moderator when the Saltire was commissioned, it was never officially sanctioned by the old forum owner -- it was Jamie's idea and Jamie's efforts that got her flying in the first place. Therefore, I stand by his decision to retire her.

T.

Todd beat me to it, my thoughts exactly.

**Nighthawk** · 24th January 11, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Respectfully, though, if you believe that Jamie intended this as a slap in the face, then you really do not know Jamie/Panache, who is one of the most respectful people I know. CDNsushi's post above is spot on when it comes to the Saltire. As a former Moderator when the Saltire was commissioned, it was never officially sanctioned by the old forum owner -- it was Jamie's idea and Jamie's efforts that got her flying in the first place. Therefore, I stand by his decision to retire her.

T.

It is indeed his decision to make. Do I support it, meaning do I think it's the right one? No. Do I think it was intended to be a slap in the face? Of course not! That doesn't mean that it's not a slap in the face just because that wasn't the intention. If my father were to take our family sword to the grave because he liked the way he looked wearing it, that would be a slap in the face- even though he wouldn't intend it to be. The Saltire is the same concept- it's like a family heirloom to this community! I've gotten to see it and I feel like it was a slap in the face!

I've been here since her inception. I do in fact remember the story, even if vaguely because I didn't keep close tabs on it. I also stand by Jaime's right to retire it simply because he did make it and technically is it's owner. Problem is that it has become so much more than just a little toy...