Rosettes instead of Kilt Pins?

[Nervous Jock]

In a kilt you would not say have a Rosette, bow, rosette. You would have 3 rosettes or 3 bows in a row not mixed. Regiments used one or other never both on one kilt.

As you know they use more than one bow usually 3

2 rosettes these days

[Bruno]

2 rosettes these days

Two in kilt, one in hat to be accurate if you have to be pedantic, but back to the point a Rosette is not a bow. They are very different even if many people do not realise this.

Personally I prefer the Rosette they are neater IMO. The bow is more like a Christmas tree decoration while a a rose can be blended to match the kilt colours using several colours which seldom happens with a bow unless tartan etc.

http://www.returntotheridings.co.uk/.../rosettes2.jpg

[Andrew M. Stewart]

These guys sell them:

http://www.houseoflabhran.net/madeto...tarykilts.html

[OC Richard]

In the Scottish regiments, two grass green bows were worn by NCOs and officers of the Black Watch (the pipers have Royal Stuart bows on their Royal Stuart kilts), two Royal Stuart ribbon rosettes by pipers of the Scots Guards (with a kilt pin worn in between), and two Leslie rosettes by pipers of the Royal Highland Fusiliers.

The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders were a somewhat special case, their pair of bow/rosette assemblages being worn on an embroidered panel, with two small bow/rosettes being worn on one of the pleats in the rear of the kilt as well.

[Kiltman]

Seems to me that anything that works is great. Kilt pins come in only a few versions. I even use the XMarks pin as a kilt pin.

[Paul]

I've seen a couple of kilts with rosettes (from A&SH) and they've had 2 at the front apron on the right side and then 2 slightly smaller ones behind the apron - over the first couple of pleats.

Like this:

[macwilkin]

In the Scottish regiments, two grass green bows were worn by NCOs and officers of the Black Watch (the pipers have Royal Stuart bows on their Royal Stuart kilts), two Royal Stuart ribbon rosettes by pipers of the Scots Guards (with a kilt pin worn in between), and two Leslie rosettes by pipers of the Royal Highland Fusiliers.

The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders were a somewhat special case, their pair of bow/rosette assemblages being worn on an embroidered panel, with two small bow/rosettes being worn on one of the pleats in the rear of the kilt as well.

Senior NCO's and Officers of the Calgary Highlanders, which were an allied regiment of the A & SH, also wear the kilt panel:

http://www.calgaryhighlanders.com/tr.../kiltpanel.htm

T.

[OC Richard]

Thanks Paul for that excellent clear photo of the kilt panel and associated bows/rosettes of the A&SH.

You can see why I called them "bow/rosette assemblages"!! They're complicated little beasties. (Note that two different sizes of ribbon must be used for the ribbons hanging straight down.)

Interesting that there's an old photo of what I believe to be the Glasgow Police Pipe Band in which the Pipe Major, on his Royal Stuart kilt, has the exact embroidery pattern as appears on Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders kilts, but done in red thread. I wonder how common that sort of thing is.

[Nervous Jock]

In the Scottish regiments, two grass green bows were worn by NCOs and officers of the Black Watch

Can we please get this right once and for all. The Black Watch wore rosettes, the current RRS wears rosettes as laid down by dress regs they are not bows

[OC Richard]

I think we're splitting linguistic hairs.

People usually think of a "rosette" as being a cloth-covered button completely, continuously surrounded by a length of ribbon formed into a circle, the ribbon forming a ruffle around the central button.

The Black Watch thing isn't like that, but actually are shaped like bows, not circles. By "shaped like bows" I mean shaped like a bow tie.

The dictionary I happen to have says:
"Bow: a decorative knot, as of ribbon, with two or more loops."
(Each of the things on the Black Watch kilts possesses six loops. Rosettes possess none.)
"Rosette: an ornament made of ribbon gathered or tufted in the shape of a rose."
(This doesn't mention a central button, but the illustration which accompanies the listing clearly shows ribbon in a continuous circle surrounding a central button.)

The difference is more clear when the actual things are seen.

First, a Black Watch kilt with the bows the regiment evidently calls "rosettes":



Now here are the things which would, in normal English, be called rosettes, worn by the Pipe Major of the Royal Highland Fusiliers:



This distinction between a "rosette" and a "bow" can be clearly seen on the assemblages on the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders kilt panel: they consist of a rosette with a bow mounted on top.

In any case, for the sake of clarity I'll continue to use the word "rosette" for things which are shaped like rosettes and the word "bow" for things which are shaped like bows, regulations aside. (Military regulations often use words in odd ways.)

I know first-hand about the Black Watch bows-which-must-be-called-rosettes because I made a set of them years ago for a kilt I had. It was a Gordon kilt and I made a set in Gordon tartan. (Of course the Gordon Highlanders don't wear these.)