Here We Are - Discussion on Rule 11 changes

[Tobus]

Perhaps we should take it upon ourselves to quote the rules as has been done elsewhere within the forums? For example,

Rule #11 (amended 4 April, 2013)
(for the purpose of this forum, "Weapon" is defined as anything that is designed for, or is used to, injure.)
- The laws governing, and/or the views surrounding, the topics: 1) The 'right to bear arms', 2) The ownership, possession, carry and use of weapons, 3) Hunting, and 4) Self-defense, are specific to each country or region. Any discussion of these topics will be closed or deleted.

Bold added by me.

It is clear that some have taken to violate this very point by specifically advocating their "views surounding...the ownership" of weapons. And so therefore should be "closed or deleted".

I'd recommend deletion of such inflamatory posts, as they appear to be specifically intended to sidetrack this thread, have nothing to do with the OP and are in clear violation of Rule #11.

How's that?

Spartan Tartan covered my thoughts on this. It's pretty clear that Phil's response was an inflammatory venting of his personal feelings on weapons (not just the rule change, but going off on atrocities and such). I don't know how much more obvious it gets that his "views surrounding" weapons is in violation of the new rules. The proper place to post that would have been in the thread where we discussed a possible rule change. Not the new subforum. Our new subforum is now polluted with exactly the kind of stuff we wanted to avoid. And sure enough, it's leading to further discussion on the topic, as Urbane Guerrilla's response shows.

So what do I suggest? Exactly what the rule prescribes. Nothing more.

*edited to add: I suppose you're right - this thread shouldn't have been in that forum to begin with, as it was really more of a commentary on the rule change. I'm glad it's out of the new subforum now.

[Piipriker]

What I don't get is why people would come to a subforum to complain about it. That makes as much sense as going to "Celtic Music" to whine about how you dislike the pipes, or "The Pub" to talk about your hatred of Whisky...
ith:

In old times, when there were still smoker compartments on trains, you always had non smokers sitting in the smokers area complaining about the smoke.
I'm quite certain that the big majority on Xmarks does not belong to this sad category of mankind, complaining about the avoidable.

[plaid preacher]

Greetings All, not sure I want to weigh in on this one, but why not. I think always the thing to keep in mind is ... this is a kilting forum ... not a hunting forum and/or a civil liberties forum regarding the right to bear arms or to control guns. While I have opinions on those issues, they are not why I come here. A photo of singlemalt out in the woods for a day of hunting would not be offensive to my eyes, the invariable hullaballoo that would arise after the next school shooting probably would. My goodness, as it stands we can get right wrapped round the axels from time to time on what you call that particular folded piece of tartan and whether or not a kilt made out of P/V is actually a kilt or not!! I don't even want to think about a debate on gun control. So let's not go there! So I get the rule.

[Chas]

If a post is a rule breaker, them the Mods hopefully will take swift action.

If on the other hand the post is just bitchy - why not just ignore it? We don't have to ignore the person, just the post in question.

Regards

Chas

[Pleater]

The problems which this forum has with the discussion of weapons has always puzzled me, as I do not see any strong connection with kilts.

I do appreciate firearms and other weapons both brutally basic and delicately embellished, but do not do more than keep my kitchen knives a) away from children and b) very sharp. I don't need weapons, and I hope that if I used weapons I would not become too enthusiastic about them.

I have wondered if it is a male thing. I wonder if men's lives lack something elemental.

As I sit with my knitting I have the option of defending myself with a 12 inch stiletto like object - I have read that it helps to have a thimble and handkerchief to protect the heel of the hand from the pressure of insertion, or I could use a flexible circular needle to garrotte, best done from behind, but I do not often have even the impulse to do so - it would probably mean picking up lots of stitches so it would have to be worth the bother in the first place.

Other aspects of my life have similar possibilities, even if it is just swinging a carrier bag containing a tin of peach halves, the large size of which would almost certainly prove fatal if it connected with the right spot.

In a tight spot I could certainly do damage with my fists and feet - I did a little karate training - but last time someone tried to use karate on me I just caught his foot and made him look foolish in front of his little friends, hopping along as I towed him by the ankle.

The other moderators worked hard to try to resolve the problem, Steve must have spent some time considering and suggesting options for the last rewrite of Rule 11, but I did not feel that I could contribute much as I just did - and do - not understand why there is the problem in the first place.

I did intend only to read, not post but I thought that I could point out that there are some who truly do not understand the place of weapons in a forum dedicated to kilts.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[chewse]

The problems which this forum has with the discussion of weapons has always puzzled me, as I do not see any strong connection with kilts.

I do appreciate firearms and other weapons both brutally basic and delicately embellished, but do not do more than keep my kitchen knives a) away from children and b) very sharp. I don't need weapons, and I hope that if I used weapons I would not become too enthusiastic about them.

I have wondered if it is a male thing. I wonder if men's lives lack something elemental.

As I sit with my knitting I have the option of defending myself with a 12 inch stiletto like object - I have read that it helps to have a thimble and handkerchief to protect the heel of the hand from the pressure of insertion, or I could use a flexible circular needle to garrotte, best done from behind, but I do not often have even the impulse to do so - it would probably mean picking up lots of stitches so it would have to be worth the bother in the first place.

Other aspects of my life have similar possibilities, even if it is just swinging a carrier bag containing a tin of peach halves, the large size of which would almost certainly prove fatal if it connected with the right spot.

In a tight spot I could certainly do damage with my fists and feet - I did a little karate training - but last time someone tried to use karate on me I just caught his foot and made him look foolish in front of his little friends, hopping along as I towed him by the ankle.

The other moderators worked hard to try to resolve the problem, Steve must have spent some time considering and suggesting options for the last rewrite of Rule 11, but I did not feel that I could contribute much as I just did - and do - not understand why there is the problem in the first place.

I did intend only to read, not post but I thought that I could point out that there are some who truly do not understand the place of weapons in a forum dedicated to kilts.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

I love your comments Anne! My personal beliefs follow yours very closely.

I will say, however, weapons, battles, wars and other like events or objects are all interwoven throughout the history of mankind. For those of us who have a strong appreciation of history, it becomes difficult for us to discard any particular component of that history; i.e. Scottish chivalry, weaponry and conflicts.

I thank the Mods for allowing a discussion forum that provides members an opportunity to voice their views and comments in regards to the historical significance of weapons to our common Scottish heritage.

[Spartan Tartan]

For me, it has little to nothing to do with weapons. Rather, it is the enforcement of rules. Were the new sub-forum to be deleted at some point, I would not loose any sleep. However, this new sub-forum triggered a re-writing of the rules. Rules which we, as members of XMTS, use to guide us through civil discussions. It always bothers me when I see a flagrant violation of the rules and nothing seems to happen. I also am not one to report posts, because I generally ignore the thread or just skip over the posts that seem to have no relevance.

The part that got me to weigh-in to begin with during the previous thread, was the idea of inconsistent enforcement of the rules. I realize we use the report a post feature, but why should we even have to if the rules are explicit about certain types of posts? If there is a clear violation, why can the MODS not just move it and flag it for each other without others having to report it?

Not to sidetrack this discussion from Rule 11, but there are other rules that do not get enforced much at all and they have nothing to do with weapons.

So, weapons or not...we return to enforcement of the rules--however they are written.

[Father Bill]

Hi friend Spartan, and others.

So... how many posts are there here on the whole forum per day?
...and how many mods, spending how many hours per day?

The mods simply don't see all of the posts, won't necessarily see them promptly, and won't see the problems unless somebody waves a flag at them. It's simply a matter of numbers. Wave a flag, and they'll come running!

[AJBryant]

The problems which this forum has with the discussion of weapons has always puzzled me, as I do not see any strong connection with kilts.

I really wasn't going to go back into this, but given the direction of this thread, and since you mentioned it, I'll tell you.

It just so happens that, most of the time, as I am legally allowed and licensed by the state of Indiana to do, I routinely carry... let's say "a can of Pepsi."

There is a specific item of accessory made for the sole purpose of allowing me to do what I am legally allowed and licensed to do. (Let's call it a "beer hat" thing.)

Now, the problem is, when I go out kilted, I can't wear that... um... beer hat thing, as it's not made for Highland wear. But there are items of Highland wear -- e.g., the sporran -- that can be modified or custom made to "hold my Pepsi."

And I can't ask "who makes these, does anyone have one, where did you get one" even though IT'S PERFECTLY FRIKKIN' LEGAL, just because some people choose to get their panties in a wad that I prefer Pepsi to Coke. It's not their damned business, I don't get on them for drinking Sprite -- it's their choice, and that's legal, too. And it *is* related to kilts in that I want to find out how other people who like Pepsi go about LEGALLY carrying their Pepsis while kilted.

I hope that explains my point.

I'm not wanting to talk about ARs or hunting or sniping or RPGs or anything. I'm wanting to talk about a simple way to modify or design HIGHLAND CLOTHING to allow me to DO SOMETHING TOTALLY FREAKING LEGAL.

And here's the thing. "That has nothing to do with the kilt."

Okay, fine. There are threads about scotch eggs, fiddles, coats of arms, etc. that have NOTHING to do with kilts, and if I want to read them I can, and if I want to ignore them, I can. Why to I apparently happen to be more mature than others? I don't complain about rampant alcoholism every time someone mentions scotch, I don't complain about musical tastes when people talk about metal music or hard rock, I don't yada yada yada. I live and let live. Cause all that stuff is LEGAL and they can do it and it doesn't affect me, no matter how much or little it has to do with Highland wear. Unlike MY preferred topic, which actually DOES touch on Highland wear, but it makes people with an inability to control themselves want to control ME. And thus we have a banned topic.

It's the squeaky wheel getting the grease.


Tony

[McClef]

Spartan:

Contrary to popular opinion, being a Mod is not a full time and well salaried job. It is done out of love for the Forum and a certain degree of madness.

We do not read every single post that is submitted and and are very dependent upon what it says in the FAQ on flagging (was reports) -

“To keep this forum an enjoyable and informative place we rely on a 'Flag a Post' driven Moderation policy”.

So those who complain and yet not willing to do any flagging themselves, to be frank, have no right to complain. The new sub forum, on the other hand, we have agreed will be carefully watched by Moderators and in that area the usual flagging will, for the moment at least, only be done by us poor benighted folks.

Nobody is forced to read any thread in which they have no interest, so if they have no weapons interest then they should by all means leave it well alone.

To quote the great Alexandr Orlov - "Simples."