celtic confederate jackets worm with kilts

[BoldHighlander]

That being said, I think others have raised some very valid points well in this discussion, especially Terry.

And for my part, to say anything more on the subject right now makes me feel like a dog chasing it's own tail

So I'll respectfully remain silent

However, it is an interesting discussion, with lots of good points being made all the way around. I will be watching how it develops (& who knows?) :mrgreen:

Cheers!

[GaRebel211]

My point is simply this: If you wear a kilt with a Confederate uniform, you are in fact NOT displaying your heritage. It wasn't done by your (collective) ancestors or mine. Where does one draw the line?

True, thus I wrote.

I for one would not mix my kilt with my Confederate uniform, but that is me. I would however find sublte ways to honor both Scottish and Confederate heritage.(SCV badge,Family crest pin, etc) I adhere to a strict policy on my Confederate uniform, because lets be honest, more questions follow a person who is dressed head to toe in a "historically accurate" Confederate uniform.

I fully understand what you are saying. All I am trying to say is that there is being "accurate" in uniform, and then there is "hodge-podge/ whatever goes" Whichever way the OP decides to go, is up to the OP.
I know for a fact that Confederate dress codes did NOT address kilts, therefore I do NOT portray kilts and a Confederate Uniform.
We are saying the same thing, but I firmly believe that an individual deserves the right to dress however they wish...Even though it is historically inaccurate.

[Captain_Cogle]

Hello everyone,i,m reece.i am a sons of confederate veterans lt. Commander who is also scotirish.i need to know the propper way to wear my colonel,s jacket with a kilt. I am clan graham and mcdonald.any help will be much appreciated.thank you all,reece

Please don't.

I am a devout kilt wearer and a American Civil War reenactor.
There is NO historical evidence of ANY kilted Confederates and to do so is a bad representation of history. I would also consider it to be disrespectful to the large number of Scotsmen who really were soldiers in the Confederate Army. There were several Scottish Confederate units and none of them wore the kilt.

So please, for the sake of the Confederate soldiers, Scotsmen, historical authenticity and keeping their memory, honor and sacrifice alive, don't do something that wasn't done then.

[SlackerDrummer]

Or how about the recent thread about the Swinging Six (the sporran of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders), in paticular the masked badger version.
I was of the opinion that a civilian version was fine to wear, but leave the military version for the guys serving (or for historical reenactment purposes). In that thread one of our newer members (a current serving officer with the A&SH's) mentioned that since the amalgamation into the Royal Regt of Scotland, that the wearing of the swinging six has ceased. He encouraged the civilian wearing of the full mask badger swinging six as a way of honouring this old tradition.
Now, what am I to make of that? Should I feel concerned about making a mockery of a very proud Highland Regiment, and possibly insulting an old jock, when I have the blessing of (currently) serving member of said regiment to wear this former uniform item (once reserved for NCO's & Officers of the Argylls)?

I had some laundry to fold, so had time to think before going to bed. I think this is a straw man argument and not at all analogous to the Confederate uniform/kilt issue. The sporran, while a prominent feature in Highland attire, is in the end, an accessory. Wearing this sporran in honor of the regiment is more analogous to the buttons I wear on my Argyle jacket, or wearing a cap badge that commemorates a relative's or ancestor's service. Wearing a kilt with the Confederate uniform is like taking the top half of one person and the bottom half of another. It isn't borrowing from a uniform in an effort to create an homage, it's altering a uniform and making it something different.

[BoldHighlander]

I had some laundry to fold, so had time to think before going to bed. I think this is a straw man argument and not at all analogous to the Confederate uniform/kilt issue. The sporran, while a prominent feature in Highland attire, is in the end, an accessory. Wearing this sporran in honor of the regiment is more analogous to the buttons I wear on my Argyle jacket, or wearing a cap badge that commemorates a relative's or ancestor's service. Wearing a kilt with the Confederate uniform is like taking the top half of one person and the bottom half of another. It isn't borrowing from a uniform in an effort to create an homage, it's altering a uniform and making it something different.

Perhaps (or not), but it was a uniform item (accessory if you wish, but still part of the uniform) worn only by the senior NCO's & the Officers of a particular unit (in this case the A&SH's) that neither you nor I belonged to, and thus neither of us were entitled to wear.

The Argylls have a rather proud history, and I'm sure the jocks who have served in the regiment are just as fiercely proud & loyal to their traditions & uniform (kilt or otherwise) as a former Marine is to his (I know for a fact that they are).

So the analogy of wearing the swinging six was really no different than that of wearing a Marine Corps dress uniform to the VA/or ball that you are not entitled to. The only difference is that a current serving member of the A&SH's gave his blessing & encouraged the wearing of the former uniform item to honour the old Highland tradition......accessory or not its still a portion of the uniform, just as a Confederate shell jacket is just a portion of the overall uniform (or just as a Special Forces green beret is just a portion of their overall uniform, etc, etc).

In the end, it really matters not what any of us say or think, short of physically stripping the jacket off anyone's back, (yeah, right...see how far you get doing that! ), those in the real world will continue to wear the kilt/Confederate uniform combo as they see fit.

.....so much for my self imposed silence on the subject!

"Every time I try to get out, they keep pulling me back in!"

[REECE]

Thank you so much for your info.and you look grand in the photo.reece

[davidlpope]

In the end, it really matters not what any of us say or think, short of physically stripping the jacket off anyone's back, (yeah, right...see how far you get doing that! ), those in the real world will continue to wear the kilt/Confederate uniform combo as they see fit.

Did you really just say "those in the real world will continue to wear the kilt/Confederate uniform combo as they see fit"?

I'm as proud as the next guy of my ancestors' military service, but really, there is absolutely nothing "real world" about wearing an American Civil War reproduction uniform jacket with a Highland kilt.To me it seems downright silly and by doing so one proclaims one's own ignorance. I can only imagine that there's some ancient crofter on Lewis that would laugh his head off when confronted with a picture of such shenanigans....

David

[OC Richard]

I'm not concerned at all with the historical aspect here, as other have covered that stuff very thoroughly.

In a simple "fashion" sense, this outfit has the trouble of large areas of two clashing shades of grey. Were I to want to wear that jacket with a kilt, I would wear Black Watch or similar tartan. Were I want to wear that kilt, I would wear it with a jacket that co-ordinates with it, such as a black jacket.


In this outfit the greys are closer to each other in shade, but the problem remains that there's just too much grey. Even the Glen is grey. Once again, a dark kilt would look much better with that jacket and visa versa.


Now someone might chime in saying "what do you mean, too much grey?? It's a Confederate uniform!" to which I would respond "go check out the original Confederate uniform regulations" in which the ONLY grey present in the uniform is the jacket itself.
To follow the regulations and reinterpret them into Highland Dress would mean a Navy Blue Glengarry and a quite dark kilt such as Black Watch, Clergy, etc.

Let's keep in mind that there is a vast resource of what Highland Dress looked like in the 1860s, The Highlanders Of Scotland.

One figure is actually wearing a Civil War style shell jacket.

Were I to mix Civil War attire and Highland Dress, I would keep my Highland Dress correct to period. Note that the style of sporran worn by both fellows above didn't evolve until c1900 making it a glaring anachronism. Ditto with lace jabots: they weren't worn at that time.

Here's the sorts of sporrans and dress worn in the 1860s. I myself would strive to capture the "feel" of that era in my dress, were I to attend a Civil War Ball or other event kilted.












And here are photos of men in Highland Dress taken in the 1860s

[SlackerDrummer]

Now, I suppose if you went with an outfit like this (apologies for quick PhotoShop slap-together), even I might think you looked smashing. But alas, I don't see any of these fellows attempting any such feat.

[BoldHighlander]

Did you really just say "those in the real world will continue to wear the kilt/Confederate uniform combo as they see fit"?

Indeed I did David, real world as not in cyber-land!

This may smack of heresy, but there is a bigger world outside of XMTS....{{gasp!}} ....even I realize that, despite the fact that most of my on-line time is spent here.

The point being (that was being made in my previous post) is that most of the gentlemen who combine portions of the CSA uniform w/ kilts are not on this forum (another {gasp!} moment ), so while its fun to discuss it amongst ourselves, its really not going to affect those who wear this style to private functions, etc., nor are they going to care what we/you/I (or some ancient crofter on Lewis) might think.

(I know, I know.....burn the heretic! )

Now, I suppose if you went with an outfit like this (apologies for quick PhotoShop slap-together), even I might think you looked smashing. But alas, I don't see any of these fellows attempting any such feat.

That's because they don't have the benefit of yours or OC Richard's fashion sense
(& I say that in all seriousness! )