Please explain...

[Jerry]

"Groan" Personally, I have yet to wear a tartan kilt which doesn't have a connection to my family(McNeill and Gordon). I do own a Stillwater black shadow tartan kilt, a Stillwater solid black economy and A Blackwatch Sport kilt. The last two are worn around home for tasks such as feeding my poultry flock and such that I wouldn't wear my Mac Newsome Macneil of Barra to do. Personally, I feel that they are kilts. Would I wear a Utilikilt, or the Hot topic thing. No I would not. Does this make them not kilts. No it doesn't, they are just kilts that I do not like for myself. Would I wear other contemporary kilts. Yes, I would love to have a Freedom Kilt Dress model, and if I ever get off my u know what and start on it, I have 5 yards of heavyweight gray denim to attempt an Xkilt. Would I wear the Xkilt out anywhere. Well, that depends on how well I do at putting the thing together. As many others in this thread and in many many others since I joined here in '04, wear what you want and if others choose to wear something different or for reasons other than yours, then respect their choices.

[David Dalglish]

I only wear traditional kilts & have to save up hard to buy them, I also think that a lot of people look great in their utillity kilts etc. The point I am trying to make is that everyone has a choise, as it would be a sad world if we all had the same tasts.

[Coinneach]

I started with Utilikilts...that is, they were the first kilt I wore as an adult. I thought wearing a tartan kilt would look a bit too pretentious. But then, I didn't know about all the good folks here.

So now I have a few tartan kilts and a few Utilikilts. I wear the tartans more often. But I still wear the Utilikilts, because they still have their place. I've used my Workmans while working in the yard, I've worn my camo original while out camping. I wouldn't wear the tartan kilts I have to do either of those things. Going about town, I can wear anything I want.

Contemporary or traditional, they all have their place, and this world is big enough for all types of kilts.

[McFarkus]

Should golf be only for Scots and people of Scots descent? What about Whisky? How about the works of Burns?

Jamie

Interesting note: I understand that Golf originally stood for Gentleman Only Ladies Forbidden.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

MacMillan,

Would you define either of these two as "real kilt" by your definition?









And I must correct you on one small point. Here is your statement.

The "contemporary" is a recent phenomenon; the result of an enterprising guy modifying a pair of worn out cargo shorts. Like I've previously said, that doesn't mean they're not likeable or useful. It just means that they're different, and shouldn't be judged by, or held to, the same standard as the traditional kilt. Likewise, they should not be compared to the traditional kilt because they have vastly different origins.

Two things:First, it's not my definition. I plucked it fromTHE ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SCOTLAND. Second, sure, those most definitely are kilts. From what I can see they appear to be shaped, and thickly pleated. That someone has added pockets (my 15 year old "Hill Walker" has concealed pockets) doesn't significantly alter the garment any more than box pleats would.

I used the word contemporay in quotes to denote any wrap around garment that did not meet the definition of a kilt. I see now that referring to wrap around cargo shorts, and their like, as "quasi-kilts" would have caused less confusion so I will amend my original posting to clarify this point.

As you can see from the examples above, a Contemporary Style Kilt can stand side by side with one of the finest examples of Traditional Style Kilts.

Absolutely. I never intended to imply otherwise. I don't think anyone would have a beef with a contemporay kilt being called, or thought of, as a real kilt. In fact, I think that the word "traditional" applies equally to a kilt whether or not it has concealed pockets, so long as it otherwise fits the general definition.

However, I do stand by my statement that the "quasi-kilt", by definition, isn't really a kilt.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Should golf be only for Scots and people of Scots descent? What about Whisky? How about the works of Burns?

Golf was invented by the Dutch.
Whisky was invented by the Irish.
And George Burns would have been nothing without Gracie Allen!

[Panache]

Got a garment I’m wearing (Can't explain)
It's a certain kind (Can't explain)
It’s got pleats and an apron (Can't explain)
Yeah, but down in my soul, yeah (Can't explain)

I said ... (Can't explain)
Wearing it makes me feel good now, yeah, but (Can't explain)

What makes it what it is, I haven’t a clue
The things you've said, well, maybe they're true
I'm gettin' funny thoughts again and again
I know what it is, but …

Can't explain
But it’s a kilt
I’ll say it to you
Without any guilt

But I can't explain (Can't explain)
Yeah, hear what I'm saying, girl (Can't explain)

Dizzy in the head and I'm feeling bad
Narrow definitions can get me real mad
I'm gettin' funny dreams again and again
I know what it means but

Can't explain
But it’s a kilt
I’ll say it to you
Without any guilt

But I can't explain (Can't explain)
Forgive me one more time, now (Can't explain)

(INSTRUMENTAL INTERLUDE)

I said I can't explain, yeah
Wearing it makes me feel fine
Yeah, I'm not the worrying kind, babe
I said I can't explain


With apologies to The Who*




Jamie

[Gaian]

I wear kilts of all kinds as an alternative to the usual limited range of men's clothing. They look good. They are comfortable to wear and they attract attention. Why should women have all the choices in wardrobe? A woman can wear anything she wants of any ethnic origin and attract no attention. Why can't a man do that?

For some kilt wearing is about their heritage. For some comfort and for others a fashion statement and perhaps a political and social statement.


Do not not limit your thinking. Embrace the differences.

[Farlander]

The more I think about this thread and the question 'What makes a kilt a kilt' the more curious I find it all.

If we were to discuss almost any other garment (pants, shirts, hats, shoes) it seems unlikely such discussions would come up.

As an example, how about a shoe. If it is buckled or laced or buttoned or clipped or zippered or Velcroed or ???, I would guess that 95% or more of people that wear shoes would still call said foot covering a 'shoe'. One could even add a pocket to said foot covering, and most would still think it a 'shoe'.

I find it curious that a man skirt (for a large percentage of kilt wearers) is not accepted as a 'kilt' unless it follows a more strict definition than other garments.

Can folks think of other mainstream garments that have such strict definitions amongst their users?

[Rex_Tremende]

Can folks think of other mainstream garments that have such strict definitions amongst their users?

Maybe...

[img]http://www.***-grecosuisse-eynard.ch/evzones%2007.jpg[/img]

One of these photos depicts a fustanella. Can you pick it out?



R.