Who were the Whigs and Tories?

[MacWage]

I am reading David Stevenson's "The Hunt for Rob Roy: The Man and the Myths" (in my tiny bit of "free time").

It talks of the politics around 1700 and the time of the 1715 Jacobite Rebellion. Then, Whigs and Tories were the two main political parties in British politics. The Whigs were the pro-Hanovarian (and non-Highlander trusting) party. The Tories were the opposing party and included the majority of Highlanders and pro-Jacobites.

I am NOT an expert in Brit politics and often get confused :confused: because the system is SO different than that adopted in the United States (which I understand well). :confused:

In the American Revolution 60-75 years later, these same terms were used differently. The patriots/pro-revolutionaries/rebels were termed Whigs. Meanwhile, the pro-British government/loyalists were termed Tories.

Can someone please explain the connections to me. As I said, I know little of Brit politics and connections to modern parties. It could explain some strange ties to pro/anti Hanovarian motives in the Jacobite wars and the American war.


Please, REMEMBER-> Political threads may be locked or deleated without reason and without notice!!!!!!!

SO KEEP IT CIVIL AND HISTORICAL (keep out of current politics!!)!!!!!

This is a topic I really would like real answers. Please, keep stupidity and flaming to yourself!!

Anyone who causes locking by moderators will be severely beaten!!!

[Southern Breeze]

I thought Whigs were those white things everyone wore on their heads back then. I'll go stand quietly in the corner now.

[Panache]

I thought Whigs were those white things everyone wore on their heads back then. I'll go stand quietly in the corner now.

...and the Tories are those little cloth puff balls on the top of your glengarry and balmorals.

I'll go in the corner and stand next to Southern Breeze now

Cheers

[kilted in kleaveland]

Tories? Did he mean Torie Spelling and Torie Sevallace? Opps I mean Telly Sevallace. Watch out SB and Panach the corner just got more crowded.

[Southern Breeze]

Tories are what you tell your wife when you come home at 2 am. Back to the corner.

[Panache]

I really enjoyed David Bowie's classic glam rock masterpiece "The Rise and Fall of Whiggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars." Back to the Corner


(Panache Looking gravely at Southern Breeze and Kilted in Kleaveland)

"We're going to need a bigger corner"

[TechBear]

:rolleyes:

For that, I turn to the generally reliable Wikipedia:

British Whig Party

The term Whig originated during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, when it was used to derisively refer to a radical faction of the Scottish Covenanters who called themselves the "Kirk Party". It entered English political discourse during the Exclusion Bill crisis of 1678-1681. The Whigs (or Petitioners) supported the exclusion of the Catholic Duke of York from the thrones of England, Ireland and Scotland because of his association with absolutism and unchecked royal power; the Tories (or Abhorrers) opposed this exclusion. Both names were originally opprobious terms: whiggamor is a Scottish Gaelic word for a cattle or horse driver, while tory is an Irish word for an outlaw (see also rapparee).

Tories

The term originates from the Wars of the Three Kingdoms and English Civil War of the 1640s and '50s, when it was used to describe Irish guerrilla fighters. For this usage, see Rapparees. It entered English politics during the Exclusion Bill crisis of 1678–1681. The Whigs (initially an insult — whiggamore, a cattle driver) were those who supported the exclusion of James VII & II from the thrones of Scotland and England & Ireland (the "Petitioners"), and the Tories (from the Irish term tóraidhe, modern Irish tóraí — outlaw, robber) were those who opposed it (the Abhorrers). The Irish word tóir means "pursuit". This is what ensued when highwaymen met their victims.

Use the links to see the full articles. At the top of each article is a link to the subject's disambiguation page, where you can follow up on different meanings of "Whig" and "Tory". Also of possible interest is the article on Jacobitism, about the Jacobite movement which is central to the Rob Roy history.

[MacWage]

So, the parties come about DURING the succesion/exile issues that kicked James VIII out and brought in William and Mary!!

I wonder why they sided the way they did decades years later in the American war (to use a term told to me by a Brit historian once)?

In the US, the Whigs are portrayed as the heros, while the Tories are thee bad guys. In light of the histoical events, I've known that was VAST simplification. Usually, Americans also claim Jacobite sympathies and Pro-Revolution (taking a general anti-Hanovarian line of thinking), yet these two were usually on opposite side in the conflicts, which intrigues me. How did the parties reverse in opposition/support for the Hanovaians in the 30 years between 1746 (The end of the Jacobite war) and 1775 (the outbreak of American one)?




I approach the corner.
Panache, Southern Breeze, and Kilted look nervous and plan a gang revolt.

I approach


And brake out laughing:

Whigs are hats with fake hair!
Tories are decorative pom poms on top of hats!

Ever heard of Tori Whig, I hear she's really sexy! :rolleyes:

[Frank McGrath]

That's my tory and I'm ticking to it.

[Pour1Malt]

fraim ma wee Scots dictionary...

Whig n clear liquid under sour cream.

Torie, Tory n grubworm; contemptible small person.