A question for you folks that DIY

[JimB]

Ok...I have read a lot, looked at diagrams a lot, and have finally gone out and bought the fabric...5 1/2 yards of poly cotton in a nice grey-green fabric that I think will work really well with the tweed jacket that I'm converting.
I'm going to make a more or less traditional cut kilt with a knife pleat and I think I have gotten it figured out except for one thing (one thing for now that is).
And that is, is there some standard for the width of the under apron pleat?
It doesn't look like it would matter much, but I thought I would ask before diving in.
My apron will be 20 1/2 wide (since my hips are 41) and my pleats will be about one inch showing with the under pleat about 4 inches total width. Would this be about right for the under pleat? Oops. I guess that's two questions isn't it?
Thanks

[O'Neille]

My apron will be 20 1/2 wide (since my hips are 41) and my pleats will be about one inch showing with the under pleat about 4 inches total width. Would this be about right for the under pleat? Oops. I guess that's two questions isn't it?
Thanks

The under apron mirrors the top apron. (you may omit the flare to the hem from the hips on the outside edge). The pleat depth sounds about right for poly/cotton. I've done a couple in that material and it works nicely. O'Neille

[Alan H]

Ok...I have read a lot, looked at diagrams a lot, and have finally gone out and bought the fabric...5 1/2 yards of poly cotton in a nice grey-green fabric that I think will work really well with the tweed jacket that I'm converting.
I'm going to make a more or less traditional cut kilt with a knife pleat and I think I have gotten it figured out except for one thing (one thing for now that is).
And that is, is there some standard for the width of the under apron pleat?
It doesn't look like it would matter much, but I thought I would ask before diving in.
My apron will be 20 1/2 wide (since my hips are 41) and my pleats will be about one inch showing with the under pleat about 4 inches total width. Would this be about right for the under pleat? Oops. I guess that's two questions isn't it?
Thanks

I added the "bold" for my own emphasis in your post....

Having made a few kilts, now, and having 6 of them I can tell you that there is no law that determines how deep the pleat that lies under the over-apron should be. That said, I'd recommend a minimum of four inches. That means you'll be using up eight inches of cloth, right? Four inches one way/the fold/four inches back.....and that's a real MINIMUM. Honestly, I'd go six inches deep, which means twelve inches of cloth disappear into that pleat.

Your hips are 41 inches , OK? So roughly you'll be covering half of that, or 21 inches with pleats.

Let's say that each pleat show a 1-inch reveal. Therefore you will have 21 pleats, right?

If you make your pleats 2 inches deep (a minimum) then the total amount of cloth needed to make a whole pleat is:

2 inches in (then the inner fold)
2 inches back
1 inch reveal

Total: 5 inches

You're going to make 21 of these right? OK so 21 x 5 = 105 inches of material that's going to disappear into the pleats.

Figure on two "pleat equivalents" for the reverse pleat on the right side...10 inches.

Let's say 12 inches for the under-apron pleat. This means the under-apron pleat will be 6 inches deep. My two Stillwaters have 6-inch deep under-apron pleats.

And 25 inches for the under apron
25 inches for the over apron (to be safe)

Add all that up and you get 177 inches of material going into your kilt. My caluclator tells me that's about 4.9 yards of cloth....single-width.

Here's a suggestion...make those pleats 'roound your bum, deeper. Make them 2.5, maybe even 3 inches deep with a 1-inch reveal. That will push your kilt up to the 6-yard range.

BTW, if you pleat to the stripe in a traditional kilt, and your reveal is 1 inch and your pleat depth is 2 inches, then the sett size is 5 inches, right? That's an OK, but a bit-smallish tartan. My MacNaughton poly-vis kilt is made with a sett size of 4.5 inches, and that's barely acceptable, in my humble opinion.

A 6-inch sett, which is very typical, if pleated to the stripe with a 1 inch reveal, will result in 2.5 inch deep pleats. The X-Marks tartan sett as woven by Fraser and Kirkbright is right around 6 inches.

A 7 inch sett, which is starting to get biggish, if pleated to the stripe with a 1 inch reveal will result in 3 inch deep pleats.

I you don't HAVE a sett because you're using plain-color or random-pattern cloth, why not make your pleats a little bit deeper and get a bit more "swing" to the kilt?

[Southern Breeze]

I've made several kilts myself and highly recommend getting a copy of the Art of Kilt Making. A search of the forum will turn up a lot of info as well.

http://www.celticdragonpress.com/

[The Wizard of BC]

I work in Poly/Cotton on a daily basis and I have found that the deeper your pleat depth is the better. If you have the fabric, make your pleats as deep as you can.
My FK's use a pleat ratio of; Cargo = 1.5"reveal/3.75"depth=9"Sett. Casual = 1"reveal/3"depth=7"Sett. Dress = 1"reveal/3.5"depth=8"Sett.
My deep pleats under the aprons are 1/2 the apron width. For you this would equal 10.25" deep. The reason for this is to allow for ample fabric to allow the aprons to fall between the knees when sitting.

Remember, Poly/Cotton does not move like wool. You need as much pleat depth as you can manage given the amount of fabric on hand.

[JimB]

You guys are fantastic!!
Thank you SO much for all this advice. I'm going to print it out and really spend some time with it so I can digest it. What I get out of it so far makes really good sense.

I only have the 5 and 1/2 yards and I know I can't get any more to match so what I have is what I have. It's a plain fabric so I don't have to worry about setts. But what I'm worried about now is if I have enought fabric to get a good "swing" if I do a knife pleat. Might it be better for me to do a box pleat given that I only have the 5 1/2 yards since I understand that those take less material?

Last night I did some practice on some scrap fabric and I really do think I can do this as far as the sewing goes. I will let you know how it comes out for sure!
Thanks!!!!

[JimB]

Ok, I did some re-figuring...
If I do a 3 inch pleat with a one inch reveal that will give me 7 inches of fabric times 21 pleats =147 inches. Add 8 inches for reverse pleat, 8 inches for under apron pleat=32 inches. 25 inches for under apron and 25 inches for over apron and that gives me a total of 229 inches or 6.36 yards not allowing for facings and such. Soooo... I don't have enough for that. I guess that's what I get for guessing at the yardage before I planned this and figured out how to calculate these things. My drop is 23 inches so I'm wondering if a standard piece of fabric is wide enough to make two lengths? It's not the double width stuff but it does look like it's pretty wide to me. It's material that's off the rack at the local fabric store.

Any advice given that 5 and 1/2 yards is it? Losing weight is not an option since my wife says that I have no butt as it is
Box pleats?

[chasem]

with your 23" drop, if the fabric is at least 48" wide (allowing cloth for a waistband) you could split it in half and sew it together lengthwise.

Otherwise you might give the box pleats a shot.

[JimB]

That's what I'm hoping. I'm at work now, but I can't wait to get home to measure to find out. If I can split it in half I'm definitely going for the nice deep pleats.
Nothing like experiece I guess. The next kilt will be easier I'm sure.
Thanks again!

[The Wizard of BC]

The average widths of fabric in N. America are 48" and 60".

This is usually more than enough to split in half. That's why everyone kept saying you had plenty of fabric to work with. We all assumed that your 5.5 yards would yeild a total of 11 yards of kilt fabric.