300th Anniversary yesterday

[Phil]

I know you guys like to celebrate these things and as nobody else has mentioned it I will. Yesterday was the 300th anniversary of the Treaty of Union when the Scottish and English parliaments combined.
President Abraham Lincoln was a big fan of Robert Burns our national poet and always carried a book of his poems. This is what Burns said about the event:-
Fareweel to a’ our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory!
Fareweel ev’n to the Scottish name,
Sae famed in martial story!
Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
An’ Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England’s province stands ..
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

What force or guile could not subdue
Thro’ many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor’s wages.
The English steel we could disdain
Secure in valour’s station;
But English gold has been our bane..
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

O, would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay
Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour
I’ll mak this declaration:-
“We’re bought and sold for English gold”..
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

Written by Robert Burns our National bard about the Treaty Of Union of 1707 which happened 300 years ago yesterday and which was supposed to unite the then independent Parliaments of Scotland and England to create one Parliament of a new United Kingdom. What really happened though was the end of the autonomy of the Scots reducing us to the status of being merely a province of England. The “parcel of rogues” he talks about were not the English though – they were the Scots who held power at the time and who were bribed into voting for this Treaty -“We’re bought and sold for English gold” – traitors to the memory of Bruce and Wallace and all they had fought for.
This is what the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320 said – “Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”

[Weasel Mender]

Well said! It has long been a proverb that any city can be taken if the enemy can place but one piece of gold within its gates, this is even more true with nations, Let all true men thus be warned.

[highlander_Daz]

Im baffled as t why youd think that considering that English MPs can no longer vote on Scottish matters yet Scottish MPs can vote on English matters. and that if Scotland is subject to the will of the English why weve had an Edinburgh born British Prime minister for the last 10 years and another Scots prime minister waiting in the wings, I cant wait for Scottish independance but lets keep in perspective the union saved countless thousands of lives but its had its day now.

[McClef]

It's an anniversary that seems to have passed largely unnoticed in the media over here but that could well be due to the fact that today sees fixed-term elections to the Scottish Parliament, the results of which could be very interesting.

There have been many analyses about the Union and its effects, its benefits and its drawbacks and the anomolies it has produced such as the West Lothian Question http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question .

Scotland has produced several Prime Ministers, especially in the 20th Century but they did not all represent Scottish constituencies and there have been English MPs who did (Churchill did once for example).

One thing that is certain is that independence would not this time be decided by a "bribed coterie of rogues" but by referendum and getting one is not so easy to begin with as whoever gets a majority at Holyrood will have to depend on the support of other parties who are against the idea in order to form an administration. So it's not likely to be something that comes about in the coming four years.

[Mike1]

I'm sure there are a handful of us anxiously waiting for news from the exit polls, but let's mind the XMTS policy on political discussion.

[Phil]

I don't think we should get too heavy here Highlander Daz, especially where politics start coming in. The ins and outs of the West Lothian question are for discussion in some other forum not here but as for scots-born Prime Ministers they all seem to rapidly forget their roots as soon as they cross the border. The only time they remember them again is when they have an election. Let's see what happens today and maybe we'll have someone in power who puts Scotland first instead of following the London line.
How did the Union save countless thousands of lives by the way? I never heard of that before. Was it maybe because a Scotsman discovered antibiotics? It certainly didn't stop the massacre at Culloden and the vicious ethnic cleansing that followed.

[highlander_Daz]

As you say its not a forum to discuss the union, you know as well as I do what I mean, in terms of saving lives Whats Culloden got to do with the union? Im not getting heavy its just I dislike it when everything bad about Scotland is blamed on Westminster, If youve travelled all over Scotland you can see bad things that are nothing to do with the union, the Nats like to suggest that once independance comes all our problems will be solved, weve pretty much had self rule for some years and npot much has changed, best of luck to Salmon and I hope he does Scotland proud- I agree about politicians losing their roots the sight of Gordon Brown rooting for England in the world cup made me feel sick- what a stunt.

[McClef]

One must remember that a UK Prime Minister, from Scotland or anywhere else, has to deal with the United Kingdom as a whole, just as a President is not there on behalf of his own State and a Canadian PM is not there on behalf of his own Province.

It's not a simple question of "forgetting their roots."

[Phil]

The Union was in 1707 and Culloden was 38 years later and it did nothing to prevent the persecution. I do agree with you that Westminster is not to blame but they are guilty of neglect and it can only be good if the seat of power is closer to those really affected. I also agree with you very strongly about Gordon Brown pretending to support England in the World Cup. A cynical self-server if ever there was one.

[McClef]

I would just like to point out that when England was the only UK representative in the World Cup that they had the support of Scotland and of Wales and I have never seen so many St George's flags being displayed on vehicles in both countries.

So it's possible that Gordon Brown was showing the same generous spirit.

After all it cost his Exchequer nothing!