Is MacKenzie considered universal?

[keith_b]

Is the MacKenzie tartan considered to be universal? What's your opinion?

[James MacMillan]

I don't think so, but that shouldn't stop you from wearing it!

After all most clans are glad to have an outsider wear thier tartan.

You could always write a formal letter to the Chieftan, and ask for permission to wear it.

I wonder if anyone has ever done this?

[macwilkin]

Moved thread to heraldry & tartans section. Please post all tartan-related questions here.

Thanks,

Todd

[McMurdo]

I just went over to the MacKenzie Clan website

http://www.clan-mackenzie.org.uk/clan/mackenzie.html

Here is what they say on the front page about wearing the tartan:

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Septs of the Clan Mackenzie

Charles
Charleson
Clunes
Clunies
Cross
Iverach
Iverson
Ivory
Kenneth
Kennethson
Kinnach
Kynoch
Macaweeney
MacBeolain
MacBeath
MacBeth
MacConnach
MacCure
Maceur
MacIver
MacIvor
MacKenna
MacKenney
MacKerlich
MacKinna
MacKinney
MacKinnie
MacLeay
MacMurchie
MacMurchy
MacQueenie
MacThearliach
MacVanish
MacVennie
MacVinish
MacVinnie
MacWeeny
MacWhinnie
Makiver
Murchie
Murchison
Smart
Tuach
NB There are several variations in the spelling of the name Mackenzie, i.e. MacKenzie, McKenzie, Macenzie, McEnzie, Makenzie, MaKenzie, M'Kenzie, Kenny, Kenney, MacKenny, MacKenney, McKenny, McKenney, Mackinzie, McKinzie, MacKinney, McKinney &c, they are accepted as Septs or variations of the Mackenzie Clan name. Often in centuries past it was the local Monk or Minister who could read and write and who also decided on the spelling of people's names when entering Baptism, Marriage or Burial records. So when writing an unfamiliar name it had to be written as it sounded and misspellings would often occur especially when the informant had a strong accent. If you are not sure that your name was derived from "Mackenzie" or a Sept name then please do ask us.

If your name is Mackenzie, one of the above Sept names or a variation then you are entitled to wear the Clan Mackenzie Tartan.

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Now given that I would say that it is not a Universal tartan, however you could write them for permission, or go out and get it for yourself, if you feel comfortable doing that.

[gilmore]

I just went over to the MacKenzie Clan website

http://www.clan-mackenzie.org.uk/clan/mackenzie.html

Here is what they say on the front page about wearing the tartan:

-----------------------------------------

Septs of the Clan Mackenzie

Charles
Charleson
Clunes
Clunies
Cross
Iverach
Iverson
Ivory
Kenneth
Kennethson
Kinnach
Kynoch
Macaweeney
MacBeolain
MacBeath
MacBeth
MacConnach
MacCure
Maceur
MacIver
MacIvor
MacKenna
MacKenney
MacKerlich
MacKinna
MacKinney
MacKinnie
MacLeay
MacMurchie
MacMurchy
MacQueenie
MacThearliach
MacVanish
MacVennie
MacVinish
MacVinnie
MacWeeny
MacWhinnie
Makiver
Murchie
Murchison
Smart
Tuach
NB There are several variations in the spelling of the name Mackenzie, i.e. MacKenzie, McKenzie, Macenzie, McEnzie, Makenzie, MaKenzie, M'Kenzie, Kenny, Kenney, MacKenny, MacKenney, McKenny, McKenney, Mackinzie, McKinzie, MacKinney, McKinney &c, they are accepted as Septs or variations of the Mackenzie Clan name. Often in centuries past it was the local Monk or Minister who could read and write and who also decided on the spelling of people's names when entering Baptism, Marriage or Burial records. So when writing an unfamiliar name it had to be written as it sounded and misspellings would often occur especially when the informant had a strong accent. If you are not sure that your name was derived from "Mackenzie" or a Sept name then please do ask us.

If your name is Mackenzie, one of the above Sept names or a variation then you are entitled to wear the Clan Mackenzie Tartan.

-----------------------------------------


Now given that I would say that it is not a Universal tartan, however you could write them for permission, or go out and get it for yourself, if you feel comfortable doing that.

You have to remember 2 things: one is that much of what is written about septs is complete balderdash, with many septs' alleged connections with clans dreamed up by tartan merchants who want to sell as much tartan as possible to as many people as possible, and by clan associations who want as many members as possible. Glancing at the list of alleged septs above, I see at least four or five that are also allegedly associated with other clans. If you want to know who your ancestors truly were---and thus who your living relatives are, there is no substitute for the slow and painstaking work of starting in the present and going backward one generation at a time using the best documented evidence available, with the possible exception of Y chromosome DNA testing.

As to the so-called misspellings referred to above, until the early 19th century there was no such thing as correctly spelled words. That did not come about until the use of dictionaries and widespread literacy. Spelling was descriptive, not prescriptive, and everyone who wrote spelled words as they sounded to them using the orthography which which they were familiar. (E.g., I have a document from the 1750's in which my surname is spelled three different ways by at least two different people in the very same document. Which is correct? All of them and none of them.) Some one who is not familiar with this very basic fact is not familiar with genealogy, as is the case in the above quoted text, and this tells us that the reliability of their work is questionable.

I do not have anything to say about who should wear a MacKenzie tartan, other than that one relies on unattributed information on the internet at one's own risk.

[Perldog007]

I always wondered about the whole sept deal. My paternal clan, Macbeth is listed as a sept of Macdonald and Mackenzie.

I got the weathered Mackenzie from Stillwater because it is gorgeous. If the clan's homepage says that the Macbeth clan can wear it that is a huge weight off of my mind. Since everybody in my bucolic corner of the world thinks that I am some sort of transvestite at least those who do their research will think I am an informed one.

Seriously, where I live and work it really does not make any difference. If I were anywhere near places where kilts are worn regularly, especially by regiments, I would certainly try to tip my hat to local customs.

I say if you like the tartan, get the kilt and wear it. You can rest assured that the people who depend on that sale for their sustenance will not require a DNA sample to complete the transaction.

Besides, reading Matt's site I get the idea that the whole clan/tartan deal is a bit contrived. Seems that I remember reading about Queen Victoria insisting that Scottish Chieftans wear their clan tartans when meeting the Queen whether or not they had one.

[macwilkin]

Is the MacKenzie tartan considered to be universal? What's your opinion?

Mackenzie of Seaforth is certainly one of the more popular and available tartans these days.

It should be pointed out that this particular tartan was at first a regimental tartan, which was worn by not only the Seaforth Highlanders, but also the Highland Light Infantry. The Scottish Military Historical Society has this to say:

In 1778, the 73rd, later 71st, Regiment was raised by John Mackenzie, Lord Macleod, at which time they adopted Black Watch tartan with additional buff and red lines. In 1798 this regiment changed the buff lines to white, making their tartan the same as that worn by the 78th, another Mackenzie regiment. This tartan, Black Watch with red and white lines, used by the Highland Light Infantry and the Seaforth Highlanders, became known as Mackenzie tartan, but was originally known only as "78th Regimental Tartan" by the makers Wilson of Bannockburn, who later called it "71st Tartan" when dealing with that regiment and "Mackenzie" when selling it to civilians. The Lord Macleod Fencibles (1798-1802) also wore this tartan, possibly at the instigation of Major John Macleod, the 2nd in Command, who had previously served in the 78th Ross-shire Buffs. It has been called Macleod tartan, but is simply that which was originally designed for the 78th.

-- "Notes on Scottish Military Tartans", SMHS

Other regiments that have worn the Mackenzie of Seaforth tartan are listed here:

http://www.regiments.org/tradition/tartans/mackenz.htm

Regards,

Todd

[LordKiltClad]

Is the MacKenzie tartan considered to be universal? What's your opinion?

That all depends on which MacKenzie you ask...

-Gordon McKenzie

[LordKiltClad]

But really it's a well known tartan, even was featured by Mike Myers in the movie "So I married an Axe murderer" and there are plenty of MacKenzie of Seaforth regiments in the world both in the UK and Canada. I wear mine because I am one, but that should stop you from wearing one if you want to.

As is true with any tartan you decide to wear, like McMurdo said, know a little bit of information on the clan you decide to wear. Makes the questions you get from people easier to answer. And gives a little more pride to know what your representing.

One of my next 2 kilts will be a MacKenzie weathered SWK standard.

Good luck, and wear the MacKenzie with Pride!

[Colin]

As someone that also comes from a family of MacKenzies, I have always considered the MacKenzie modern as a universal (as well as a clan tartan) tartan in that it has a military history and it is so widely available. Personally I consider the variants (Weathered, Old, Ancient, etc) to be Clan tartans.

I ordered the MacKenzie weathered a few months ago to stand out from the sea of MacKenzie moderns available at every shop..well okay it is also my favourite version of the tartan. Had I know that SWK was going to offer it soon, I would have gone with the old sett in wool and ordered the SWK in Weathered. Ah well.