kilt in 1396?!

[Nick the DSM]

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kvenjb/madmona...obert3_bio.htm


if you read into it like toward the end i guess it will say, wearing a short kilt or sumtin of the like. what do you think? true or false. ive been told to read alot but dont believe everything i read. i know it seems like heresy against mr. newsome and others documents on the history of the kilt, but i jsut found it not created it.

nick

[Sardious]

sounds more one piece like a tunic but pleated skirt like garments are not uncommon in the old world

[pdcorlis]

Please read some of Matt Newsome's very informative articles found here.

http://www.albanach.org/kilt.html

[Nick the DSM]

Please read some of Matt Newsome's very informative articles found here.

http://www.albanach.org/kilt.html

i have and thought it was very informative.

[beloitpiper]

A notorious tournament was held in 1396 on the North Inch of Perth as an entertainment before the King and court and vast crowds. Thirty men of the Clan Chattan fought against thirty men of another clan. They were clothed in a short kilt and armed with sword, dirk, axe, crossbow and three arrows each. To the music of the pipes they slaughtered each other until after a long time only a dozen survived - all badly wounded. As a result of the acceptance of the outcome of this judicial combat and the slaughter of so many local champions in it, the following years the central highlands were more peaceful.

I'd be tempted to say "wrong", not only because this disagrees with every other piece of historical information I've heard, but also because this sounds slightly Romanticized, and that's a sign that things have been...embellished.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Consider that this is not an academic article, and nothing he writes is footnoted, so one cannot very well go and check his source for saying there were "short kilts" worn in 1396. However, if one does look at his bibliography, what you find are popular histories, not scholarly works. The very first name on the list is Nigel Tranter, who was a fiction writer.

I tried reading his book about Somerled once and couldn't make it through the first few chapters. The reason why is that his description of their clothing was so incredibly inaccurate. He was describing these thirteenth century figures as wearing very modern Highland attire, complete with short kilts, sgian dubh, and the like. I tried telling myself that it was just historical fiction, and there were bound to be inaccuracies, but I just couldn't make myself imagine Somerled or his companions in the clothing that Tranter was describing them in!

So if this was his source for information about this tournament, it could explain a lot.

~M

[beowulf67]

At least at the bottom of the page when he mentions movies about Scotland, he notes that Braveheart isn't historically accurate. I guess thats something in his favor.

[Jaggy thistle]

the battle certainly happened but I would suggest that the combatents would have discarded their outer clothing and fought in their shirts which may have given them the apearance of wearing a kilt

[pipesndrumsnun]

Hmmm...very interesting!

[Galician]

the battle certainly happened but I would suggest that the combatents would have discarded their outer clothing and fought in their shirts which may have given them the apearance of wearing a kilt

But didn't the kilt come from the plaid worn over the shirt? So that would just the opposite of wearing a kilt, but then, as has been mentioned above, there's not a real demand for accuracy in the sources, so a general description of attire is enough for the writer.