National Occupational Standards for Kilts

**katmills2005** · 23rd September 08, 05:42 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7630905.stm

I found this on BBC this morning. It details what may soon be the established standard for kilts.

I have seen a lot of so called kilts being churned out in mass production with poor quality, we have all seen the Kilt Don't list that is on this site, so with that in mind, I think it may be a good idea. Though, I'm not entirely sold yet.

**Geoff Withnell** · 23rd September 08, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by katmills2005

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7630905.stm

I found this on BBC this morning. It details what may soon be the established standard for kilts.

I have seen a lot of so called kilts being churned out in mass production with poor quality, we have all seen the Kilt Don't list that is on this site, so with that in mind, I think it may be a good idea. Though, I'm not entirely sold yet.

This quote bothers me a lot 'Kilt-maker Ruthven Milne said: "A kilt is a traditional garment, not a fashion garment."' This would freeze kilts as costumes, not clothing.

Geoff Withnell

**george7** · 23rd September 08, 06:38 AM

Ruthven Milne is but one individual with one opinion. Perhaps, he makes kilts that are not fashionable, yet traditional?

**katmills2005** · 23rd September 08, 07:22 AM

You have to stop and think what these standards would mean. Kilts that are machine made, worn too long or too short, not made of wool, etc would no longer be considered Scottish kilts. Perhaps it is the American in me, but it seems that it would infringe on rights. I will agree that there are a lot of shoddy kilts being produced and there are a number of people that just don't know how to properly wear a kilt. Education seems to be more of a viable answer rather than trying to enforce regulations. JMHO

**cessna152towser** · 23rd September 08, 07:50 AM

As someone who wears both traditional and non-traditional kilts I'd be concerned by this. Some of the casual garments which I wear are not what the kilt snob would regard as a kilt, yet they are perceived and accepted by the public as kilts. I think the kilt needs to be allowed to evolve as a fashion garment. By all means have standards for traditional dress wear kilts for formal occasions, but I do think there has to be freedom regarding casual wear kilts.

**Riverkilt** · 23rd September 08, 07:57 AM

Big stuff...

There are small, butsignificant, differences between kilts made by graduates of the Keith Kilt School members of the Traditional Kiltmakers Guild and kilts that look similar that are sewn up to what the Keith school graduates sometimes call "Tailor style". And I'm talking hand sewn kilts here.

Seems to me a traditional craft trying to protect itself.

Ron

**Highlander31** · 23rd September 08, 08:31 AM

While I can understand they want to preserve the traditional kilt and the skills set necessary to make it, I can see how another layer of rules and regulations could add to the cost of the end product. Also as someone who believes in individual freedom, I prefer the traditional kilt, however, if some yo-yo is going to tell me that is the only real kilt,...then I am planning on going to Boston to throw the whole boatload in the water and I'll will be doing it in a USA Kilt.

**Mr. MacDougall** · 23rd September 08, 10:44 AM

This doesn't seem so bad to me. After all, one of the things we as a group have said is that where the Gold Brothers (for example) go wrong is in misrepresenting their product. We as a group have called for truth in labeling. Well, if we're to have truth in labeling, the first step is to decide what can be called a Scottish Kilt.

I don't see any indication that they're planning to shut down anyone who doesn't conform to their standard. I do see this:

Jackie Cullen, from Skillfast-UK, said there was a "broad spectrum" of kilts produced in Scotland.

She said: "We are looking at preserving the traditional skills associated with the production of kilts in Scotland. "

Which seems to recognize that different types of kilts are being made, and that the skills related to the production of kilts need to be preserved.

Entirely aside from which, most of us are Americans, so this will have a rather limited impact on us. I anticipate that the Pakistan-made kilts that keep our supply cheap and plentiful will continue to be available. For those who want something more sophisticated, we'll still have the fine sponsors of this board, from USAKs machine-made PV, to FKs modern stylings, to Matt Newsome's hand-sewn traditional box pleats, and beyond. People like Kathy Lare and Alexis Malcolm aren't going anywhere. They may not be Scottish kilts, but they're kilts, and we love 'em.

**macwilkin** · 23rd September 08, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. MacDougall

This doesn't seem so bad to me. After all, one of the things we as a group have said is that where the Gold Brothers (for example) go wrong is in misrepresenting their product. We as a group have called for truth in labeling. Well, if we're to have truth in labeling, the first step is to decide what can be called a Scottish Kilt.

I don't see any indication that they're planning to shut down anyone who doesn't conform to their standard. I do see this:

Which seems to recognize that different types of kilts are being made, and that the skills related to the production of kilts need to be preserved.

Entirely aside from which, most of us are Americans, so this will have a rather limited impact on us. I anticipate that the Pakistan-made kilts that keep our supply cheap and plentiful will continue to be available. For those who want something more sophisticated, we'll still have the fine sponsors of this board, from USAKs machine-made PV, to FKs modern stylings, to Matt Newsome's hand-sewn traditional box pleats, and beyond. People like Kathy Lare and Alexis Malcolm aren't going anywhere. They may not be Scottish kilts, but they're kilts, and we love 'em.

A very reasoned response, Mr. MacDougall.

I think you're spot on in this regard, especially the remarks you quoted:

"We are looking at preserving the traditional skills associated with the production of kilts in Scotland."*

*emphasis mine.

Why shouldn't the Scots be allowed to preserve their traditional skills?

Regards,

Todd

**gilmore** · 23rd September 08, 10:59 AM

I don't see what the fuss is about. It's a trade association, not the government, trying to maintain standards of kiltmaking.

It's not so different from what is already the practice on this very board. "Tank" is an 8 yard kilt made of wool tartan fabric that weighs 16 oz per yard (or more I guess.) "Designed in Scotland" on the label of a kilt has come to signify a cheaply made kilt of synthetic material manufactured in Pakistan, thanks to Gold Brothers.

Even if there were governmental regulations of standards for what are called kilts, it would not be a great leap from regulations in other areas, such as appellations controllees of French wines and cheese, or some products in the US. E.g., in Georgia onions can be sold as "Vidalia onions" only if they are grown in a five county area of south Georgia. This was done to protect the local market and consumers from sweet onions grown in Texas that were being sold as Vidalias.