Vintage Tank Alterations

**mayberry** · 23rd January 09, 08:03 AM

Here are some pictures of the heavy Murray of Athol kilt I was recently given. There's a faint mark on the lining which looks to me like a WD and broad arrow, indicating a military provenance. It comes from a Glaswegian friend's family, perhaps her grandfather. So perhaps WWI, or the 20s, but no-one knows. It's obvious that someone lowered the straps at some point, and did it very heavy-handedly. I makes me think of the photograph we saw here recently of the soldiers sitting around mending their kilts. Note the buttons on my kilt for braces. As you can guess, the kilt doesn't hang sweetly in the front, and the rise is very high, even for a military kilt. I can wear it, but I'd love to restore it. It may then be too long for me (it's hard for me to figure out exactly how it will fit if I put the straps back where they belong), but then I can pass it on to someone it does fit. The only thing I've done so far is to re-dye and condition the straps. Is it common to have pleats that are so varied in depth? I think you can see on the photo of the pleated bottom edge that of the 33 (?) pleats, most are 3", but two are 4 1/2" and one is 3 3/4", with one vertical seam between the regular ones and the deeper ones. Any comments or observations welcome.

Cheers, John

**David White** · 23rd January 09, 04:12 PM

Can't help you with alterations or resortation, but that is a very nice kilt.
You are very lucky.

**Smayniac** · 23rd January 09, 04:53 PM

I would guess, based on your pictures and on other threads I've read, that the tartan is some sort of asymmetrical and to save material and still pleat to the red stripe, the pleats are to the red stripe of half setts. The color across the rear is not consistent and some setts have varying distances between somewhat similar elements. Someone who knows tartans better may be able to comment more intelligently.

(edit)Okay, I just looked again and it's obviously asymmetrical from the front view, but that doesn't seem to explain the color variation completely.

Bob-

**The Wizard of BC** · 23rd January 09, 05:29 PM

A very interesting Kilt. Can you take a closer view of the front apron?

In your photo of the apron it appears that just left of center there is a red stripe flanked by light green. But the flanking green bands seem to be different width. Is this an allusion or possibly a fold in the fabric?

I can't tell to well from your description but from looking at the pleats of the Kilt even though it is pleated to the Stripe there are three distinct areas. The center is to the Red Strip flanked by light Green and then outer section is Red Stripe flanked by Blue.

This changing of the stripe you pleat to is the reason for the difference in pleat depth. If you will look at the odd depth pleats you'll probably find that they are at there the color changes.

I really had to take a close look at the Murray of Atholl Thread count on the Scottish Tartans Authority because at first glance I didn't think it was that Tartan.

BTW Murray of Atholl is International Tartan Index no. 281.

**ChattanCat** · 23rd January 09, 07:25 PM

The strap location does look like it has been moved.

It is not uncommon to pleat with uneven pleat depth. Some tartans have stripes at uneven intervals, like when there are predominant stripes, two per sett, and that is the chosen stripe to pleat to. The kiltmaker has no option, other than using huge amounts of fabric, but to have uneven pleats on the inside of the kilt. In fact, I don't see the whole sett in the front apron.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 23rd January 09, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Smayniac

I would guess, based on your pictures and on other threads I've read, that the tartan is some sort of asymmetrical and to save material and still pleat to the red stripe, the pleats are to the red stripe of half setts. The color across the rear is not consistent and some setts have varying distances between somewhat similar elements. Someone who knows tartans better may be able to comment more intelligently.

(edit)Okay, I just looked again and it's obviously asymmetrical from the front view, but that doesn't seem to explain the color variation completely.

Bob-

No this is a typical symmetrical tartan. It is actually a Black Watch variant. It is pleated to stripe, but to different stripes, as Steve pointed out. Very unusual!

**Cerebite** · 23rd January 09, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

I can't tell to well from your description but from looking at the pleats of the Kilt even though it is pleated to the Stripe there are three distinct areas. The center is to the Red Strip flanked by light Green and then outer section is Red Stripe flanked by Blue.

This changing of the stripe you pleat to is the reason for the difference in pleat depth. If you will look at the odd depth pleats you'll probably find that they are at there the color changes.

Wow that is a VERY COOL effect

**sydnie7** · 24th January 09, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

[snip] In your photo of the apron it appears that just left of center there is a red stripe flanked by light green. But the flanking green bands seem to be different width. Is this an allusion or possibly a fold in the fabric? [snip]

And way down on the lower left of front apron is are two red stripes with NO light green flanking. . . again, perhaps illusion (as the Wizard alluded

) but it gets curiouser and curiouser. I do really like the effect of pleating to different stripes in three bands across the rear!

**mayberry** · 24th January 09, 01:33 PM

There are no folds on the apron in the picture. There really is a variation in the width of the green stripes on the apron. The back is actually pleated to the same stripe; what happens is the green disappears from the pattern, then comes back. Then a new piece of slightly different material is attached to form the last few pleats (one of them much deeper than all the rest)and the under panel (terminology?). The second piece of fabric has no green stripes at all. I'll post some more pics when I can.

My first guess is that it as the result of some wartime shortage of fabric, or a rushed weaving making for either a mistake, or a substitution of one yarn for another to keep production going. I wish I knew more.

After wearing it last night for a long Burns evening, I can tell it will fit better if I move the straps back to their original places.
John

**mayberry** · 27th January 09, 10:18 PM

Here are some more photos, where I've tried to show the variation in the main piece of fabric, as well as the different piece of fabric stitched on to form the last few pleats and the under-panel.

There's also some indication that the last few pleats were re-pleated at one point. There are two photos with a blurry finger; one points to a seam, one points to an old crease.

It also looks to me as if the two panels have been taken in to reduce the waist of the kilt.

Again, any obsevations welcome.
Cheers,
John