Namesakes

[Kilted Sapper]

Didn't quite see this thread anywhere so I thought I would try my luck?

Since I would be taking my mothers maiden name to tie in to the Scottish Heritage my question is this;

How does one state their name?

My surname is Stiverson
My mothers maiden name is Andrews
Andrews is associated with Clan Ross

I imagine something to the claim of Barry Stiverson of the Andrews Clan of Clan Ross????

[gilmore]

Didn't quite see this thread anywhere so I thought I would try my luck?

Since I would be taking my mothers maiden name to tie in to the Scottish Heritage my question is this;

How does one state their name?

My surname is Stiverson
My mothers maiden name is Andrews
Andrews is associated with Clan Ross

I imagine something to the claim of Barry Stiverson of the Andrews Clan of Clan Ross????

That's a mouthful.

Most Britons would hyphenate, I suspect, e.g., Barry Andrews-Stiverson.

What is the context in which you will take or use your mother's name?

Are you sure your Andrews are the same Andrews who are associated with Clan Ross? Some degree of certainty might be useful, lest you find some years down the road, after you have spent quite a bit of money and gone to much effort, that things were not as you thought they were, that your family is associated with a different clan, or with no clan at all. I went here http://www.nationaltrustnames.org.uk/default.aspx and discovered that most Andrews in the UK are from the south of England, and very, very few were Scots.

[Kilted Sapper]

After speaking with the Ross's in their tent at the Scottish games in Ohio they were the ones who got me searching for the Andrews who fought under Clan Ross. I looked up on various sites and found that most Andrews started off in the highlands and then moved south to Dumfrieshire, then I am sure they moved further south into England and eventually in America.

But let me be a little more clear as to my question, if I was to be wearing a kilt from the Ross clan and either competing in the games or if asked the question, Whats your lineage? I would like to respond in the proper form, i.e Stiverson with the Andrews Sept of Clan Ross! Or however it would be said!

[gilmore]

Not to dissuade you from wearing whatever you want, but....

The lists of septs, or surnames associated with a clan, are notoriously inaccurate and full of fantasy.

When we do genealogical research, we ALWAYS start with the most recent person, oneself and one's parents, then work our way backward, rather than picking some one in the distant path, then deciding to be descended from them, and trying to work our way forward and claim som relatinship. Likely one isn't related.

There are only two ways to discover ancestry. One is tracing the paper trail backward in time, documenting one generation before moving on the the previous one. The other, which is new and sometimes but not always helpful, is DNA testing. You might find the FAQ at www.familytreedna.com informative.

The problem with just picking a clan from a list and deciding to be descended from them is not so much that one is usually mistaken, but that it can lead others to repeat the same mistake, and that it gets passed on and on. A relative of mine did just that, and now one misinformed nephew has an expensive kilt in a clan that we have no association with, while another had the clan crest tattooed across his back. And neither are all that interested in correcting the misinformation, since it has gotten under their skin, so to speak.

Since you ask, I would say the proper form when asked one's lineage is to simply speak the unadorned truth: "My surname is Stiverson, and I don't know what my lineage is." There is nothing at all wrong with not knowing.

[Kilted Sapper]

thanks for the advice, believe me when I started this process it has taken me everywhere from England to Wales to Scotland to Prussia to Netherlands and Ireland?!
I have traced back to the early 1700's on both sides and found that most all of the lineage comes from the UK area as noted. But with the Scots being the traditional with the highland dress of a kilt and if I was to wear one with what seems to be the correct lineage than that is what I was wondering on how to say it, not that it is neccessarily true and correct but how? I mean we can always go back as far as Israel if we wanted to push the envelope that far for our true lineage??????

[gilmore]

thanks for the advice, believe me when I started this process it has taken me everywhere from England to Wales to Scotland to Prussia to Netherlands and Ireland?!
I have traced back to the early 1700's on both sides and found that most all of the lineage comes from the UK area as noted. But with the Scots being the traditional with the highland dress of a kilt and if I was to wear one with what seems to be the correct lineage than that is what I was wondering on how to say it, not that it is neccessarily true and correct but how? I mean we can always go back as far as Israel if we wanted to push the envelope that far for our true lineage??????

Why would you want to say something about your lineage that is anything other than true and correct? That is, why misrepresent oneself as something other than what and who one is?

BTW no one can trace their pedigree to pre-Christian Israel via documented sources. The earliest reliable Western sources go back only to the immediate ancestors of Charlemagne, from whom virtually everyone of European ancestry is descended, in one way or another, or several. It is possible that one of Charlemagne's great grandmothers, Berta, was a Merovingnian, and if so, that would put it back another couple of centuries. Before that, nothing is reliable, it's all myth and conjecture.

[Bugbear]

Ah, but Gilmore, have you considered or pondered if your ancestors, as they were in their time, would accept or not accept you as you are now? Would you have been accepted into their clan by their chief, or would you have been thrown out and rejected... or worse? I think there are other questions beyond the DNA that might be important before you have the "clan crest" tatooed on your back or spend every last penny you have on a kilt in a tartan.

[Jock Scot]

Gilmore is of course right, but if you feel that you have a connection to Clan Ross, then wear the tartan and learn all there is to know about the clan. You will be most certainly asked one day about the tartan and it would be courteous to the clan to have a sensible answer. There is no need to festoon yourself with clan this that and the other either,5/6/7/8 yards of clan tartan should be enough for anyone to see who you are! In truth, if you feel that your connection with the clan is tenuous, then if any one asks your reply should be in a firm and courteous manner," I am of Clan Ross". No one will argue. You don't need a whole heap of birth certificates, family trees and whatever to prove anything to anyone, other than to yourself, perhaps.

If you are uncomfortable with that and still wish to wear the kilt, there are many options available to you, that will not tread on any clan toes.

[BoldHighlander]

Very sound advice.

Prior to my first starting to conduct genealogical research of my family, we were under the impression that we were some how connected to the Gordons. A cousin of mine also went to the trouble of buying said kilt & getting said tattoo (despite my telling them I wasn't so sure about the truth of it). As it turned out I found no connection to the Gordons, but to a number of other clans. To this day though, my cousins & aunt don't want to believe the truth, all because he jumped the gun

The moral of the story, listen to Gilmore on this. You'll save yourself a lot of $$$ & headaches. It might take longer to verify where you came from, but the rewards are worth it in the long run!

When we do genealogical research, we ALWAYS start with the most recent person, oneself and one's parents, then work our way backward, rather than picking some one in the distant path, then deciding to be descended from them, and trying to work our way forward and claim som relatinship. Likely one isn't related.

There are only two ways to discover ancestry. One is tracing the paper trail backward in time, documenting one generation before moving on the the previous one. The other, which is new and sometimes but not always helpful, is DNA testing. You might find the FAQ at www.familytreedna.com informative.

The problem with just picking a clan from a list and deciding to be descended from them is not so much that one is usually mistaken, but that it can lead others to repeat the same mistake, and that it gets passed on and on. A relative of mine did just that, and now one misinformed nephew has an expensive kilt in a clan that we have no association with, while another had the clan crest tattooed across his back. And neither are all that interested in correcting the misinformation, since it has gotten under their skin, so to speak.

Since you ask, I would say the proper form when asked one's lineage is to simply speak the unadorned truth: "My surname is Stiverson, and I don't know what my lineage is." There is nothing at all wrong with not knowing.

[Bugbear]

I have read of people writing to the chief of a clan and asking permission to wear the tartan, and I think even asking to be a member of the clan complete with the swearing of loilty etc...

I don't understand this clan tatoo thing, though. You would think wearing the cap badge would be good enough.