Good wool hiking kilt?

[Mellie]

I've been shopping around for a good wool kilt for a while (the prices are a bit too yikes from the sites I've been looking at), mainly to hike and be outdoors in. I walk a lot in colder weather, so it's wool I'm looking for, not cotton, not canvas, and certainly not polyester.

And, while I realize that a lot of the high prices do come from good kilts being hand made, I'm having a LOT of issues finding out specifically what kind of wool is being used. And whether or not the tartan is hand loomed or machine loomed. This is important to me when comparing costs because, as someone who spins and knits her own socks, sweaters, and other frivolous odds and ends, the details are extremely important. While I do enjoy a good Shetland wool, I fear it would be far too sticky for a kilt. BFL is incredibly hard wearing, but full of coarse guard hairs. Merino is nice, and standard, but far too common and easy to get to pay too much for. And it doesn't wear long very well.

To be honest, I'm looking for a good Merino Shetland cross wool kilt (probably along the lines of 80/20), maybe a little silk spun in (strength and insulation), a common black watch loom (hand loomed if someone is honestly going to charge $350+), and a good pleat.

I know I'm picky, but, as I said, I do actually spin and knit my own sweaters. I can spin and knit a good gansey for far less than $200 ($150 if it's a good merino, maybe $175 if I spin a little silk top in), and that's in a week for non patterned, a week and a half to two weeks if it's a cabled sweater. I have a hard time, extremely hard time, justifying a 'craftsman' price when I just can't get the details of the product.

Does anyone know of a seller that even knows such details about the product they're selling? Wool is not just wool. Wool is a start to a long, detailed history of a fiber.

[Jock Scot]

The only person that I know(there must be others) that might be able to help you is Francis, of Redshank kiltmakers, Inverraray, Argyll, Scotland. email info@redshankkilts.co.uk

I only met her the other day when I popped into her shop.She knows what is what when it comes to talking about cloth.Hand woven cloth is, I would say, one of the strong points of the enterprise. I am very tempted to spend a fair bit of money on a hand woven tartan kilt that I don't need, I am that impressed.

To avoid confusion "Redshank", on this website, is not to be confused with Redshank kiltmakers. Yes they live and work in the same area and yes, I think I am right to say, that they are friends, but their businesses are not connected.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Most of your commercially available tartan, from the major suppliers to the trade (Lochcarron, House of Edgar, Strathmore, Dalgleish, Ingles Buchan, etc.) is going to be machine woven cloth, made from 100% new worsted wool.

These mills provide the cloth to the majority of qualified kiltmakers out there, and you can find kilts made from this cloth that are entirely hand sewn, that are machine sewn, or that are sewn using a combination of hand and machine stitching (usually the visible stitching on the pleats being done by hand and other work being done by machine).

I imagine that if you are asking your kiltmakers specific questions such as "what kind of sheep does this wool come from" they would not know the answers, because they simply order the cloth from the woolen mill and make the kilts. They may be expert kilt makers, but they are not weavers, and so won't necessarily have that kind of detailed answer at hand about the weaving process.

You'll have an even harder time getting the information you need if you are ordering from a retailer who provides kilts but doesn't actually make them.

As far as acquiring hand woven tartan cloth, I can supply you with short lengths of tartan cloth in Harris Tweed, which is hand woven by some definitions. I'd be delighted to make a kilt for you, as well!

Peter MacDonald, of Crieff (who is a member of this forum), is a true tartan hand weaver (last of a dying breed!) though I don't believe he is weaving at the moment. He may chime in on this thread.

[The Wizard of BC]

Hello Mellie and welcome to X Marks.


The Wool used by most of the prominent Tartan weavers is a combination of Lincoln Longwool, Coopworth, and Merino. The exact proportions are not always posted by the weavers. Most use a combination of longwool and luster quality. At least one uses only Australian Merino.

All good quality Kilt Wool is fully worsted and of a very hard twist.

A photo of the yarns pulled from 16oz. Kilt Wool during fringing.


The actual weaving is usually done on modern machines of three types. Some of the older mills use machines which produce the famed 'Kilt Selvedge' which is similar to hand weaving. Another type is of the rapier style loom and produces what is known in the business is a "Tuck Selvedge", and the third type of rapier loom produces what is known as a "Fringed Selvedge". Three of the Weaving companies still have and use hand looms for special orders. The cost of these special weaves is almost twice of that done on automated machines.

Photo of the difference between a Tuck Selvedge and a Fringed Selvege.


As with modern machine weaving the individual yarns are very fine. Far finer than capable of being used in hand weaving. Average yarns per inch is determined by the individual weaver and their equipment. Some weavers vary the weight of the fabric by increasing the number of threads per inch and some weavers do it by increasing the diameter of the yarns. The average yarns per inch can vary from 65 for some of the lighter weight fabric to 85 for some of the heavier weights.

One of the looms at Lochcarron in Selkirk Scotland.




On of the looms at Marton Mills in Otley showing a Fringed Selvedge.


On of the looms at Fraser & Kirkbright in Vancouver, BC Canada. This is 100% Australian Merino Wool.



Tartans are woven with specific thread counts which are published when the Tartan is designed. The average size of one repeat of the pattern or what we call the Sett is between 5 and 7 inches. This size gives a good pleat depth and a pleasing appearance to the finished Kilt.

The primary part of the cost of a good Wool Kilt today is not the Kilt makers labor charge. It is the cost of the fabric. On average, Kilts are made from fabric which weighs between 13oz. and 16oz. per fabric yard (60" wide by 36" long).
These fabrics usually retail for between $48.00 and $68.00 per fabric yard,
With a standard 8 yard knife pleated Kilt using 4 yards of double width fabric.

On average in N. America today, Kilt makers charge approx. $250.00 to $400.00 for their labor. A hand sewn 8 yard Kilt requires between 20 and 40 man-hours of labor. You can calculate the hourly rate.

I hope this helps.

[HeathBar]

Well, the experts were typing at the same time I was, so use their info. I did meet a hand weaver at some games last year. She said that she would charge $100/yard for single width, kilt quality material.

[Mellie]

I hope this helps.

Yrs it does, thank you. I actually know where to get wool at much less per yard at a same weight, so I'll see to getting a hand sewn kilt instead. Thank you.

[csbdr]

FWIW, I have been very happy with the tartan from Frasier and Kirkbright, which uses Australian Merino. It has a wonderful hand, and seems to be wearing very well. They often have sales on yardage which can then be sent to the kiltmaker of your choice.

[Paul Henry]

Getting a handsewn kilt isn't really so difficult, there are lots of us who either part hand sew or could completely hand sew if asked.

The question of hand woven fabric is a lot more complicated, there are actually very few "hand woven" tartan fabrics available, by that I mean the main tartan weavers almost all use mechanical looms, and some of the smaller concerns eg Harris tweed, use looms with mechanical assistance- although technically they can still be called hand woven.
Some weavers will be open to give you all sorts of details about the content /variety of the yarns,, but as said before many kilt makers don't really have a say in the fabric that they use.
It might be worth a look at this site, she uses beautiful fabrics, and says that all her kilts are completely hand sewn Kates Kilts
Let you know of your progress

[wildrover]

This is one of the coolest threads here. Thanks for the photos, Wizard!