Heraldic Badges

[Cygnus]

This quote is from another thread. I quote it here to keep the original thread on topic:

The salmon buttons are worn by the Duke of Argyll AND and the Chief of the MacLeans, in the case of the photos by Sir Lachlan Maclean of Duart and Morvern. Salmon are totems of many Westerns Highland/Isles clans and are badges of both the Duke of Argyll and Maclean of Duart.

Now, they are hardly "restricted" in any legal sense of the word. "Good taste" though, is another matter. The shield of my coat of arms bears three salmon, but it just wouldn't be done for me to have buttons made up as salmon. If Lord Lyon saw fit to grant me a badge of a salmon naiant, then I might consider salmon buttons, but I still would be reluctant to wear them in certain places.

Since I am not familiar with such badges, I have a couple of questions;

1. Under what circumstances would Lord Lyon grant such a badge?

2. Where, if anywhere, is such a badge displayed in an heraldic achievement?

Thank you!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Badges are quite commonly granted. While they aren't often displayed on the achievement they are, however, always depicted somewhere on the armiger's letters patent. Both Gayre and Moncrieff (of that Ilk) were of the opinion that most early crests were actually "badges" and continue to be so today; hence their use by chiefs to show who "belongs" to their clan (in the same way a soldier "belongs" to his regiment or a sailor "belongs" to his ship, a clansman "belongs" to his chief). Most armigers depict their badge (often along with their crest) on their standard or guidon. Until recently badges were also used on the livery buttons of servants in lieu of the crest of their employer.

[creagdhubh]

Badges are quite commonly granted. While they aren't often displayed on the achievement they are, however, always depicted somewhere on the armiger's letters patent. Both Gayre and Moncrieff (of that Ilk) were of the opinion that most early crests were actually "badges" and continue to be so today; hence their use by chiefs to show who "belongs" to their clan (in the same way a soldier "belongs" to his regiment or a sailor "belongs" to his ship, a clansman "belongs" to his chief). Most armigers depict their badge (often along with their crest) on their standard or guidon. Until recently badges were also used on the livery buttons of servants in lieu of the crest of their employer.

Nicely explained and quite right Scott!

[Cygnus]

Thank you, Scott, for your concise answer.

If you and everyone else on the forum will oblige me:

Is a badge inherited with the arms (by the eldest son, for example) or would the eldest son have a different badge from his father?

Are there specific criteria for the grant of a badge, or is it something that anybody can request?

Thank you, once again!

[JSFMACLJR]

Thank you, Scott, for your concise answer.

If you and everyone else on the forum will oblige me:

Is a badge inherited with the arms (by the eldest son, for example) or would the eldest son have a different badge from his father?

Are there specific criteria for the grant of a badge, or is it something that anybody can request?

Thank you, once again!

Usually in Scotland, Lord Lyon King of Arms grants badges only to peers, baronage, chiefs, chieftains, and "the older landed houses." There might be some question now about grants to the baronage since the Abolition of Feudal Tenure Act of 2000.

The Canadian Heraldic Authority and the College of Arms, on the other hand, are much less restrictive with grants of badges to petitioners.

[Cygnus]

Thank you, Sandy, that's good to know.

[Chas]

When PYE of Cambridge applied for a grant of arms from the College, they also applied for a variety of flags (burgee, guidon, standard, pennon, banner) and 12 badges. This is their logo - not one of their badges:



There were, at the time 12 different divisions, of the company and each division used its own badge on internal communications. PYE also had a fleet of vehicles and they used the badges with a fleet number to identify each one.

PYE is now a small part of the Phillips Plc group and as far as I know have reverted to the use of their logo and no longer use any heraldry.

Regards

Chas

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Is a badge inherited with the arms (by the eldest son, for example) or would the eldest son have a different badge from his father?

Now days badges tend to be heritable, and may or may not be transmittable to younger sons.

Are there specific criteria for the grant of a badge, or is it something that anybody can request?

Before answering, it might be a good idea to have a better understanding of the heraldic badge...

Badges are heraldic insignia which, like arms and crests, are distinctive of a person or a family. Broadly speaking badges fall into two categories-- household badges and private badges. Household badges would be used to distinguish adherents and retainers, whilst a private badge would be used in lieu of arms to mark out an individual person. In modern terms I think is not far off the mark to consider any badge to be a type of personal logo that may be "lent out" to those who may have no entitlement to share in the armory of the owner of the badge. In other words, the hired help, along with your live-in brother-in-law, who you could allow to use your badge, but not your crest.

Badges pre-date heraldry and, as heraldry developed, in many instances the badge came to be adopted as either the crest, or as a charge on the shield. I am of the opinion that the chiefly arms of many West Highland clans are composed of the badges of the lesser chieftains, with the badge of the chief being used as his crest to show his paramountcy within the clan. One has only to look at the heraldry of Ireland and the West of Scotland to see how this theory suggests itself.

Once the original badge had been melded into the arms, or attached to the helmet as a crest, it was still necessary to provide adherents with a means of identification, and new badges were devised. Generally speaking these badges are personal, although usually they are passed on to the person inheriting the undifferenced arms; cadets will often have similar badges, often differenced merely by tincture. For example the badge of my chief is a lion's head erased sable collared or charged thereon with three mullets azure; it would not be unreasonable to suppose that his second son might adopt as a badge the same device, but reverse the tinctures: a lion's head erased or collared sable, etc..

The most common use of badges, at least in Scotland, is on heraldic flags where they are displayed on standards and guidons; since the use of these flags is controlled by Lyon, and since they are heritable, it would be reasonable to assume that the badges there on displayed are personal cognizances the use of which falls under Lyon's absolute jurisdiction.

Anyone may apply for a grant of a badge, although generally speaking the guidelines for the granting of a badge seem to vary widely between jurisdictions, and it will be up to the granting authority to decide if you have a sufficient following to justify a badge.

[Gael Ridire]

Just for FYI, to my knowledge a badge may be granted by the Chief Herald of Ireland, but it isn't inheritable.