Kilts and Clergy wear

[FatherWilliam57]

I was planning on asking this (some day), but since MacRobert's Reply posted the following photo in another thread, I thought I would explore this subject now.



As a Lutheran clergyman (with traditional fashion sensabilities), my wardrobe for over 20 years has been black. Suits: black. Socks: black. Shirts: black. Shoes: black. I haven't bought (or worn) a dress shirt in decades. I can get dressed in the dark with no fear of creating a fashion faux pas. It's gotten to the point that my parishioners believe that even my pajamas and underwear are black. You get the picture.

Thanks to Tattoo Bradley, I am now the proud owner of a Henderson Ancient Tartan kilt and a black Argyll jacket and vest set (all of which fits like a glove). Sorry, my "jones" only lasted three days (U.S. Mail from New Mexico to Pennsylvania). I am a happy camper!

I also procured a Navy Daywear Argyll & Vest from Burnetts & Struth when they had them on sale two weeks ago. Once I get a sporran and some kilt hose, I should be good to go.

Referencing the above picture, I immediately understood when MacRobert's said the white vest was to help avoid the dreaded "black on black on black" that is an occupational hazard for many clergy. I could wear my Navy daywear jacket, with or without the vest, with a black clerical shirt, no problem.

The traditional silver buttons on the Argyll, however, are having an adverse affect on my very parochial psyche! In the near future, I will be ordering one of the following clergy vests:





I need a new clergy vest anyway, and I believe the clergy vest to be "more formal" than a plain black clerical shirt for wear with an Argyll jacket. To my mind, if I purchase the first vest (Latin style with black, textured buttons), I might be inclined to replace the buttons on the black Argyll jacket with similar buttons to match ("tone it down" to a more "priestly" standard, if you get my drift). Obviously, since the clergy vest is an actual vest, I would not be wearing the Argyll vest with it. If I procure the second vest, I'm not sure what I would do about the Argyll jacket's buttons.

I know there are different options available to me (tartan vest cut on the bias, etc.). What are some of these options? Clergy are, in a fashion sense, "different critters." For example, even when attending a wedding reception that is white tie, a pastor is still quite welcome in a black suit with clerical collar...no one expects the pastor to rent a tux. (Call it one of the "priestly percs," if you will.)

Although everyone is free to chime in on this, I am particularly interested in what other clergy at XMarks have to say on the subject. Thanks!

[Jock Scot]

I am far from an expert on religious attire, but I note that our local C of E and RC representatives wear green/brown tweed jackets with tweed six button waistcoats, black shirt(perhaps it is a "black bib" thing?) and dog collar and their Clan tartan kilt.

[Newfoundlander]

Interesting questions you pose there indeed. I'm sure Father White, or some of the other clergy here can help you far better than I, but I'll subject you to my thoughts anyway

A priest in our old parish once had a clergy tartan kilt and black argyll jacket, but similar to you, didn't like the look of the shiny buttons. So for a few dollars he ordered dark charcoal buttons from the net and replaced the buttons and it looked very sharp. Perhaps you could think of this for your black argyll? You can also get different toned down colours that would work well with navy blue. I've seen pictures of buttons that have the look of tarnished brass, so they're not shiny either.

Food for thought =)

[FatherWilliam57]

Thank you, Jock, for letting me know what actually happens in your neck of the woods. That is helpful to me.

Newfoundlander, I have thought about a charcoal type button, but I wasn't sure how that might look. Glad to know you can recommend it from experience. Also, I should have mentioned that the Navy Argyll has the tarnished brass buttons on it, and I like those very much. It really is the black Argyll that has me wondering. Thanks!

[SlackerDrummer]

I am far from an expert on religious attire, but I note that our local C of E and RC representatives wear green/brown tweed jackets with tweed six button waistcoats, black shirt(perhaps it is a "black bib" thing?) and dog collar and their Clan tartan kilt.

Brown tweed? Green tweed? Good gawd, Jock! Weebs wearing all that color. It would likely give him palpitations.


Any buttons with a shank will do to replace what's on the Argyll jacket (everything but the epaulette buttons and front buttons should be held on with some sort of pin. You might try getting some black braided leather buttons.

[FatherWilliam57]

Black braided leather would seem to be another good suggestion. I checked and the Argyll does have shank buttons with pins, but they are located inside the coat lining. (I never understood the purpose of using shank buttons and pins, then hiding them inside the lining where they are inaccessable.) Fortunately, my wife has a button-holer on her sewing machine, so this will not be a huge problem. Plus I may come to the point where I would like to purchase a nice shirt and tie and want to switch back and forth to the silver buttons. Thanks, Kenneth.

(In all fairness I should mention that I do indeed have several herringbone and tweed jackets that I occasionally wear to "dress down" a bit, so no heart attack is imminent on that score!)

[SlackerDrummer]

Black braided leather would seem to be another good suggestion. I checked and the Argyll does have shank buttons with pins, but they are located inside the coat lining. (I never understood the purpose of using shank buttons and pins, then hiding them inside the lining where they are inaccessable.) Fortunately, my wife has a button-holer on her sewing machine, so this will not be a huge problem. Plus I may come to the point where I would like to purchase a nice shirt and tie and want to switch back and forth to the silver buttons. Thanks, Kenneth.

(In all fairness I should mention that I do indeed have several herringbone and tweed jackets that I occasionally wear to "dress down" a bit, so no heart attack is imminent on that score!)

I replaced all the buttons on my Argyll with silver NC state seal buttons (repro Civil War) to go with my Carolina tartan kilt. You can do the ones on the sleeve by feel. I think there is a washer of some kind but you can hang on to it and the pin pretty easily. On my jacket the cover on the back of the pockets isn't sewn all the way around and you can pull it down and replace the buttons there very easily.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I would be inclined to wear a vest (waistcoat) such as the ones you picture, particularly the first. And I would have a kilt jacket made from black barathea wool with crail (plain) cuffs, plain pocket flaps, and no epaulettes, with cloth covered buttons to match the vest.

Basically a kilt-cut equivalent of the typical clergyman's jacket.

That is if you want the kilted equivalent of the above. :-) I know plenty of kilted clergy who wear a typical Argyle with chrome buttons, gauntlett cuffs and all. And as Jock mentioned, tweed is always a traditional option.

[davidg]

The traditional silver buttons on the Argyll, however, are having an adverse affect on my very parochial psyche!

I suffer exactly the same problem. One of my colleagues wears a black clerical shirt with standard 5 button black vest and an Argyll jacket but I simply do not like that look. I often wear just the black shirt and an Argyll jacket because I think that looks better, but it still does not quite work for me

I have made a clerical vest that looks similar to this one



but I made it in black barathea to match the Argyll jacket and the buttons are the small silver "lion rampant" buttons that also match the Argyll

The only problem with this is that you are still very "bright" as there is too much silver for my tastes so I think the far better alternative is actually Matt's suggestion. Use the standard clergy vest (or a black-buttoned barathea version) with a simple Braemar jacket, the kind that has black buttons at the front and a single lack button on each cuff. That should really give you the highland equivalent of a priest's black suit and clerical vest

I checked and the Argyll does have shank buttons with pins, but they are located inside the coat lining

There is usually a slit somewhere inside the jacket that will allow access to remove the buttons. It may be in the centre back lining or at one of the side seams. Buttons on the cuff sometimes have a slit in the lower sleeve lining, pocket flaps underneath the flap and PC tails at the top of the tail lining on each side. If these openings are not there it is easy enough to open the lining enough to get a hand in and then slip stitch it closed after changing the buttons

[MacRobert's Reply]

For me the clerical shirt and collar (or clergy waistcoat or bib stock) are generally sufficient, and I am content to wear the same jackets and doublets as my secular friends and colleagues without any further distinction. My morning dress Argyll jacket is black anyway as is my velvet Sheriffmuir doublet for evening wear. However, the buttons on the Sheriffmuir are antiqued so a duller silver. For day wear, green and check tweeds with antler buttons are fine.

I do have clergy friends and colleagues, however, for whom black is the only colour. Among these all blacks I cant think of any that wear the (tartan) kilt which in itself would break the all-black hegemony. It seems to me that once one is clad in tartan, a bit of silver and additional colour is fairly incidental ... but that's just me and its all a matter of personal taste.

By the way Jock, I didn't know the Church of England was in your neck of the woods. Could this kilt-wearing cleric actually be from the Scottish Episcopal Church? If so, although part of the Anglican Communion and popular with English Christians living in Scotland, definitely not C of E. They were, after all, proscribed by parliament after the '45.