Pronunciation question - Bellendaine?

[EagleJCS]

Hi folks!

This is directed mainly to our Borders members, since they're closest (and to other Scots as well):

How is the place name Bellendaine (the old rallying point of Clan Scott, somewhere to the east of Alemoor Loch reservoir) pronounced?

I have heard it variously as: 1) bell-en-DEEN, 2) bell-en-DANE, 3) bell-en-DAWN, and all three of those with the emphasis on the 'bell' instead. Or is it "that wee sma' hill on the left outside o' town"?

[EagleJCS]

*tap tap tap* ahem - is this thing on?

OK, 47 views and no responses...

Does anyone have any idea of the proper pronunciation for the name of this place?

I really don't want to bother the folks in the Buccleuch Group (or, since the Duke of Buccleuch & Queensberry is the Chief of Clan Scott, one of the Duke's estates) since it's not strictly related to the business.

The various pronunciations I outlined previously have come from members of the Clan Scott Society, so they're no help either.

[ScotFree]

I'm one of the viewees ... but unfortunately, I have no real idea. I've been waiting for someone who would actually know to answer. Sorry M8

[EagleJCS]

I think I finally found the answer in A Hawick Word Book, a dictionary being put together by a Professor Douglas Scott. He kindly allowed the Clan Scott Society to put a link to the draft version on the member's pages. I found the following references there:

"Bellendean (bel-en-deen) n. area near the head of the Ale Water, not far from Alemoor Reservoir, which was the site of Bellenden, the gathering place of the Scotts; hence the family rallying cry ‘A Bellendaine’. This may be the same lands as ‘Bellingdene’ recorded in a charter (along with Todrig) to Henry of Ashkirk around 1256. Robert Scott exchanged lands at Glenkerry (on the Tima Water) for Bellendean with the monks of Melrose Abbey in 1415. Along with other Buccleuch properties it was burnt by the English in 1543. George Nichol was the tenant farmer there in 1574. In 1582 a group of Elliots and Armstrongs stole 60 ewes from there, the farm then being the property of Dame Margaret Douglas, Countess of Bothwell. It was marked prominently on the map of the whole of Scotland which Robert Gordon drew for Blaeu’s 1654 atlas. The farms of Bellendean and Bellendeanshiels were part of Selkirk until incorporated into Roberton Parish in 1689. James Burnet was farmer there in 1797 and was joint tenant with Robert in the 1830s. The farmhouse was demolished to make way for the reservoir (situated at the far end), and there is now no sign of previous habitation between Alemoor and Redfordgreen. The Bellendean Burn follows the B711 near here, with Bellendean Shank on the south side of the road and Bellendean Rig on the north side (former spellings include ‘Bellendeane’, etc., with ‘Bellyndeen’ in 1415 and ‘Belindene’ in 1451; the origin is probably Old English ‘belling denu, meaning ‘the valley with the little hill’, although the rallying cry has been suggested to be a corruption of ‘Ad Bellendum’, Latin for ‘To Battle’; ‘Bellenden’ is marked on Ainslie’s 1773 map).

Bellenden (bel-en-den) n. former name for the original home of the Scotts of Teviotdale, near the head of the Ale Water, before they moved to Branxholme and adopted the name Buccleuch. The area may have given rise to some instances of the name ‘Ballantyne’, ‘Ballantine’ etc., since that was often spelled ‘Bellenden’ in earlier centuries. The modern name for the area is Bellendean. The area inspired the rallying cry of the Scotts – ‘Whitslade the Hawk, and Headshaw came And warriors more than I may name; From Yarrow-cleugh to Hindhaugh-sweir, From Woodhouselee to Chester-glen, Troop’d man and horse, and bow and spear; Their gathering word was Bellenden’ [SWS] (marked ‘Bellendenn’ on Blaeu’s 1654 map; the origin is uncertain, and it may be that the name comes from its use as a gathering place, rather than the other way around; it is probably the ‘Bellingdene’ of c.1256)."

So, it would seem that the correct pronunciation is bell-en-DEEN.

[Grizzly]

Well I don't know the correct answer and I don't know if anyone could really tell you how it used to be pronounced. The English language has changed so much over the years that if anyone from now travelled back in time to Shakespeare's day they would probably not understand a word of any of his plays. Indeed even today local accents affect the way words are pronounced.
No doubt linguistic scholars could provide a more educated guess but that's what it would be , just a guess.

So I would pick the version you prefer and stick with it. After all no one can really tell you that you are wrong. Just different to how they would pronounce it.

[EagleJCS]

Well I don't know the correct answer and I don't know if anyone could really tell you how it used to be pronounced. The English language has changed so much over the years that if anyone from now travelled back in time to Shakespeare's day they would probably not understand a word of any of his plays. Indeed even today local accents affect the way words are pronounced.
No doubt linguistic scholars could provide a more educated guess but that's what it would be , just a guess.

Grizzly,
I believe Professor Scott's project is listing the modern, local (Hawick and surrounding areas) pronunciations of the words found in his 'Word Book'. His project is an attempt to capture and preserve some of the pronuciations and usage in the regional form of Scots found in and around Hawick. From the notes in the preface (and they are extensive), it seems that folk around there use Scots more than they do English (at least amang theirsel' ), and they have their own 'dialect', which is quite different from the Glaswegian form, which appears to be the predominant form of Scots in most online dictionaries.

Since the location in question is just a few miles outside of Hawick, I would say that's probably authoritative.

I brought up the question in the first place because I've embarassed myself more than once by mispronouncing locations in one way (what one might think the pronunciation to be given what "standard" English spelling dictates) that locals - or those 'in the know' - pronounce completely differently*. I want to avoid that in the future - it's a matter of learning a bit about a place beforehand. It shows that you're actually interested about the place and took the time to learn a little before going there.

To each their own...


* Case in point: Versailles, KY. One might think it's pronounced the same as the French town: 'vehr-sigh'. Locals, however, pronounce it 'vuhr-sayles'. Or my own city: Louisville. Most natives pronounce it 'loo-ah-vuhl', or the even shorter 'loo-vuhl', instead of 'loo-ee-ville'. (There are a few exceptions, but most people I know pronounce it the first way).

[Grizzly]

John I have no doubt that Professor Scott has undertaken a huge amount of research in reaching his conclusions . Indeed he may very well be right but I still think it's open to speculation. Spellings and pronunciation has changed so much and is still changing now. Language is constantly evolving and likewise place names. My own home town of birth was originally called Brigstow . We now know it as Bristol however most of the locals call it Bristle or Brissal and every one is correct in their own way.

Maybe Alex ( cessnatowser) could throw in an opinion as he is a resident of Hawick and our man on the spot, so to speak.

[cessna152towser]

Well I have always known it as Bellendean (Bell-en-deen) but that's not to say I am correct as I am an incomer to Hawick, having moved here from the Glasgow area in 1989.
That said, I have done some guided tours of Clan Scott country for overseas visitors and nobody has corrected me on my pronunciation.

[Grizzly]

Excellent thanks for chipping in Alex.

[Ozark Ridge Rider]

For what it's worth, both the present and former Clan Scott Chieftains tend to use "Bel'-en-dane" with almost as much emphasis on the last syllable as the first. I've heard that was the 'historical' pronunciation.