Legalities - and how the authorities classify the Sgian Dubh

[Dranoweb]

while still new - I like to be thorough, and having recently made several of these fine items, I'm now looking into what legal hurdles I may face - and having some trouble finding information.

I'm and Australian, and as hence I can do my best research based on my present location, but I would welcome any information on other regions and countries too.

I have looked thoroughly though other posts and found little information.
I have elected to post this here as in Australia - a Sgian dubh is a restricted import item, based on it's history as a "weapon"
I use this word carefully as in Australia the legal definition of a "weapon" is anything that can be used as such. and I like to refer to my guns as "firearms" for the same reason.

For my contribution to the topic - Australian customs have a website that details this:
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp

However I am lost in my research having found no definitive information in, or out of this forum on Australian law.

I know that a dummy training knife is regarded the same as a real knife due to it's similar appearance.
and this was considered when making my own, in that I may as well have a useful one if I'm going to be hung for it.

I kept my blades below 3.5 inches to be safe.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[Chas]

This might be of some assistance -

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/33

Paragraph 139 - Offence of having article with blade or point in public place is the bit you are interested in.

[Dranoweb]

Looks like subsection 4 is what I'm after:

(4)It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

Pretty sure Australian law follows UK law fairly closely - though there was a revision of the knife law a couple of years back, and I can't find reference to that.

[Dale Seago]

You might try joining this forum and searching/asking around:

http://www.australianbladeforums.com/vb4/

[Aussie_Don]

while still new - I like to be thorough, and having recently made several of these fine items, I'm now looking into what legal hurdles I may face - and having some trouble finding information.

I'm and Australian, and as hence I can do my best research based on my present location, but I would welcome any information on other regions and countries too.

I have looked thoroughly though other posts and found little information.
I have elected to post this here as in Australia - a Sgian dubh is a restricted import item, based on it's history as a "weapon"
I use this word carefully as in Australia the legal definition of a "weapon" is anything that can be used as such. and I like to refer to my guns as "firearms" for the same reason.

For my contribution to the topic - Australian customs have a website that details this:
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp

Hmmmm... interesting. I've bought two Sgian dubhs from Scotland,
had them sent here via post and no problems. Both are about 8.5 cm
(3.5") one was sharpened when it arrived and I'm considering sharpening
the other.

I was at Port Arlington, Vic for the Celtic Festival. I met an old mate
who works for Customs. He'd had a Sgian dubh that most likely arrived
in the same way that mine did. (He lost it while at an event at Crown.
He was getting glances from security, so he tucked it in a jacket pocket
and it fell out. ) N.B. he's always struck me as a strictly law abiding
sort of bloke - so if he had it, it was most likely legal.

I'm not absolutely certain, but about 90%+ that mine were declared
correctly and came through customs with no problem. (I guess this
is the biggest thing that makes me think it's OK. )

I've tried looking for information here in Victoria, but haven't found
anything - the police website is supposed to have information, but
doesn't.

FWIW, I also have a "dummy" Sgian dubh, that I wear when I'm around
places that alcohol is being served. I figure that is less likely to excite
security guys. (Though we're mostly talking about folk festivals here -
not the place where one would expect riotous behaviour.)

-Don

However I am lost in my research having found no definitive information in, or out of this forum on Australian law.

I know that a dummy training knife is regarded the same as a real knife due to it's similar appearance.
and this was considered when making my own, in that I may as well have a useful one if I'm going to be hung for it.

I kept my blades below 3.5 inches to be safe.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[Dranoweb]

You might try joining this forum and searching/asking around:

http://www.australianbladeforums.com/vb4/

Yes I have scoured that site thoroughly, and no information specific to carrying a Sgian Dubh in public.

[Dranoweb]

As for the shipping - I did get a dummy one through customs that was included with the kilt and sporran - I guess they look at that logically and assumed it was for ceremonial purposes.

Off memory, and don't quote me on this, but there was a revision of knife laws a couple of years back, and that may be when things were changed in this regard. At the time I was only concerned with pocket knifes and macettaes as per my practical uses. I didn't pay attention to anything ceremonial when re-reading it all.

As it's a monday here I might give my local DFO a call, as we both belong to the SSAA and I know him fairly well.

[Downunder Kilt]

In relation to the importation of a sgian dubh into Australia is the concern is that it is not a dagger i.e. blade is not sharpened on both sides. Daggers are a prohibited import.
In Victoria, knives are classed as a controlled weapon. Many cultural groups have applied for and been given an exemption in relation to carrying of a knife when performing at or attending a cultural event. In relation to individuals, the law is very much the same as that in the UK. I have been advised by the Sergeant of Police in my area, and members of the Vicpol Pipe Band that should I be at a highland event, dressed in highland attire, there would not be a problem. If I was to go to a hotel, even though I was dressed in Highland attire it would be a diffrent matter. It's really a matter of common sense.

I will have a look around and see if I can find the definitive legislation.

[Downunder Kilt]

Here is a link to Victoria police with some info
http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content...ument_id=25574

[Aussie_Don]

In relation to the importation of a sgian dubh into Australia is the concern is that it is not a dagger i.e. blade is not sharpened on both sides. Daggers are a prohibited import.
In Victoria, knives are classed as a restricted weapon. Many cultural groups have applied for and been given an exemption in relation to carrying of a knife when performing at or attending a cultural event. In relation to individuals, the law is very much the same as that in the UK. I have been advised by the Sergeant of Police in my area, and members of the Vicpol Pipe Band that should I be at a highland event, dressed in highland attire, there would not be a problem. If I was to go to a hotel, even though I was dressed in Highland attire it would be a diffrent matter. It's really a matter of common sense.

Pretty much in line with my thoughts on the subject --
I'd carry the "dummy" around places where alcohol was being
served, but otherwise not worry too much. I'll be playing at
what amounts to a Ceilidh in September, wearing full PC and kit
with the formal Sgian Dubh (that has a blade) -- not expecting a
problem -- perhaps gray hair and beard help in this regard also.

[QUOTE=Downunder Kilt;1189361
I will have a look around and see if I can find the definitive legislation.[/QUOTE]

I'll wait for that -- it would be good to know exactly what the
score is.

-Don