Help, a Sgian Achlais, a Dirk or fooled ?

[Burgondy65]

A while ago, i was searching the net to buy a nice Dirk for my outfit. On CelticWebmerchant I found what i thought to be a Dirk, although on the website they called it a Sgian Achlais.

For pictures see :
http://www.celticwebmerchant.eu/a-28...nife-and-fork/

This is their text on the article :
"This Scottish sgian achlais is not only perfectly suited for the battlefield, the scabbard can also hold a knife and a fork. Weapons like this were worn in the 18th century by the Scottish nobility. The cutlery could be used after the meat was cut with the dagger. The sgian achlais was the predecessor of the smaller sgian dubh. It has a length of 44 cm and it has a blade of 28 cm."

Can any one help me out here, is this correct, or did i just buy a "fancy knife" ? On other threads here i understood the Sgian Achlais in fact was a small hunting/pocket knife?

[Dale Seago]

It's a dirk. It's too long to be a sgian achlais.

The sgian achlais was smaller than a dirk; bigger than the later sgian dubh, but still small enough to hide under your waistcoat or jacket. Dirks often had a bye-knife and fork as shown, but I've never heard of a sgian achlais sheath having such accoutrements.


(EDIT: As far as being "suited for the battlefield", that's not likely. It's probably Pakistani made, and even if the steel itself is decent the heat treatment of the blade is likely such that it won't long hold an edge that will cut much more than butter.

And regarding the comment that "Weapons like this were worn in the 18th century by the Scottish nobility", well yes, BUT:

Those worn by the upper crust were generally fancier, with knotwork carving or other detailing on the handle and finer metal fittings. Up to The Forty-Five, the dirk was a ubiquitous tool worn by just about every Gaelic male in the Highlands and Hebrides; those too cash-poor to own a sword generally had at least a dirk.)

[Father Bill]

Thread moved to: "Weapons as Kilt Accessories"

Sorry; can't help you with your question, but I have no doubt you'll get plenty of info plenty soon.

Cheers!

Bill+

[Geoff Withnell]

Would have to agree with Dale, it's definately a dirk. And I have learned that unless you know the source for the alloy and bladesmithing, the chance of getting a decent "working" blade are nil. Might look good and would probably serve to cut the haggis at a Burns dinner, but thats about it.

[Dale Seago]

As a hopefully-minor digression, I once got one of these, thinking it looked sufficiently "Jacobite era" for my taste but also nice enough to wear on formal occasions:

http://www.southernswords.co.uk/late...ack-2052-p.asp

You can click on the image to see a full-screen version.

It's advertised as having a "high-carbon steel blade", and I managed to look up what steel, specifically, was used. I don't recall just what it was, but it's one used a lot in the UK which compares well with the 5160 steel used a lot in the US by custom sword and knife makers who make "functional" blades. I think some sites also described it as "battle ready".

It proved impossible to sharpen. The steel, of a composition which was actually quite suitable for a knife of this type, had not been properly heat treated, and was so soft it could not take an edge. It also turned out that the blade was chrome-plated, and the finish scratched very easily.

[Burgondy65]

Dale, Geoff,

thanks for the accurate information. I'm happy the item i bought could at least be considered as a Dirk. I don't mind it probably can't be sharpened ; that was not my intention anyway. So i'm glad I at least have a "replica" Dirk for my kit. However, I strongly dislike a webshop publishing misleading information, partially or not. Based on the information from Dale, this seems to be the case. I can't comment on the steel since i'm not going to try to sharpen it.

[Dale Seago]

BTW, if anyone wants to broaden their knowledge concerning dirks, here's a good article that covers the subject from the origin as a ballock knife to the dirk's now-emasculated position as a large piece of jewelry:

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_dirks.html

[Sir Didymous]

BTW, if anyone wants to broaden their knowledge concerning dirks, here's a good article that covers the subject from the origin as a ballock knife to the dirk's now-emasculated position as a large piece of jewelry:

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_dirks.html

That's a great article. I read it a few times while building my own kit. I am a member of that forum, but I don't visit it as often as I would like.