A jabot that is not a shade of white (and questions related to that concept)

[CeilidhDoc]

I seem to have strings of questions that appear to have not been fully addressed in prior threads so I hope they are helpful and not annoying instead.


This next question has been very briefly touched upon in some other threads I found but not discussed much with what I read searching the forum. As always, if I missed something then my apologies and feel free to just post a link.


I have a feeling that this question will make eyes roll or seem tacky but I am curious so here it goes:


Are white or off white the only acceptable color choices for a jabot?


I have some specific thoughts that cause me to bring this up. I frequently see men shying away from the jabot on account of it being perceived as perhaps too feminine somehow, or too over the top in how much it stands out. I also see a lot of debate about whether a jabot is too formal for black tie.


A potentially obvious (at least partial) remedy might be a black jabot, for instance.


If the jabot were black, would it not be a "black tie" of sorts? Would it then be more appropriate for black tie affair?


It also seems to me that men might find a black jabot to inherently appear more masculine, and if worn against a black doublet then it would certainly be less obvious and a bit more subdued.


So what do people think?


Is there any precedent for jabots that are not some shade of white in highland tradition?


If so, when and how were they worn?


If not, is there any reason that seems apparent to those much more knowledgeable than myself? Would a lack of precedent preclude inclusion now?


Please forgive my naiveté on this issue but I am curious as this would seem an easy solution to common complaints I see on the forum so I am thinking this must not be done for a reason of which I am not aware since surely someone before me has thought of this.


I am particularly interested in hearing from the historians, formal attire experts, and native highlanders among us on this issue but of course all are quite welcome to chime in and any comments for or against are appreciated.


Slainte and tapadh leibh for your time and thoughts

[Father Bill]

Jabots are white. That's all.

[Liam]

Jabots are white. That's all.

Padre... I would have no reason not to believe you but do you have any supporting documentation for such a "black and white" or should I say only white statement? I'm sure I have seen red jabots, although not with male highland garb.

Cheers...Bill

[Father Bill]

Bill, I often hear people say "You can do anything you want." Yes you can. Considering what is publically and generally viewed as "normal," why would you want to? It's an "in-your-face" "up-yours" that starts to turn the kilt into a costume, something that is really unfortunate.

There are a lot of things in this world that are undocumented because nobody doubts them. Nobody for example puts into a book on etiquette that one must not go about the room at a house party, bopping guests on the head. That's because nobody needs to have it documented. It's too obvious to observers of human nature.

If you have indeed seen one somewhere, you've seen an attempt at dramatic nonsense, not a respectable presentation. But then, I'm just an old crabby guy. You're welcome to draw rolled eyes, muted laughter, and contempt should you wish to do so. Nobody is likely to say anything, but consider how you'll be thought of. If it's so important to you, go for it.

[rondo]

Try:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-Lace-C...-/310432771736

and:
http://www.lady-chrystel-kilts.com/i...mannequin.html

or:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ravishing-Re...main_2&hash=it

Other colors are out there, but not sure how proper they might be.
Rondo

[CeilidhDoc]

Jabots are white. That's all.

I appreciate your prompt and blunt response!

Why do you think this is? With pretty much any other kind of neckwear I can think of, the norm is a wide selection of colors. How is it that jabots are only shades of white then (EDIT: When worn with highland attire specifically)?

Seems unusual in that regard to me, and I don't see an obvious reason for it to be that way, but there must be one if that is the case.

Slainte

[Chas]

Jabots are white. That's all.

I agree with this.

I believe that it is to do with showing that as a gentleman you had clean linen.

During the day, a gentleman could wear a coloured stock, but in the evening he wore a clean and starched white jabot.

[Father Bill]

The jabot is a remnant of the original tying together of a white linen shirt. Linen was used as I understand it, because it could be bleached. Being white was a sign of cleanliness, something the upper classes affected because they could afford to do so. The aspiring middle class copied that aspiration in both cleanliness and whiteness, thus bleach.

As a matter of history, the white that you see on my clerical collar was merely a bleached, starched, white linen band that was worn by those who could read and write - clerks, clarks, or clerics.

Whiteness therefore was the sign of a gentleman, while other colours were the signs of the illiterate, the poor, or the ill-bred.

Thus, if you could afford lace, you could obviously afford bleach and starch.

To be historically correct, I could wear my jabot with my cassock as a priest, but then again, why would I unless I were playing a part in a play. That's the whole point: are you playing at something, or are you something.

Sorry for the bluntness, but I get tired of folks, not only in the kilted world, but in certain geographical cultural areas of the world, trying always to do things differently rather than trying to do things well.

[MacLowlife]

Here we have two sound, mutually exclusive views. Both can not be right at the same time. Either Father Bill is right- there is no such thing, or Liam and CeilidhDoc are - at least they are not sure such jabots do not exist.

Unless we work a little on the definition of "right". To my rigid, traditional mind, a man's dress shirt (what we Americans call Formal- meaning to be worn with a white or black tie) ought to be white. Always. However, I actually had one made up in pink oxford cloth a few years ago*. It has pleats and french cuffs. It can not really be worn by a man in any situation other than as a shirt for black tie. Is it correct? Not really. Is it cool? I think so. I have seen similar shirts in catalogues of expensive traditional retailers. Most of us have seen, either in their original 70s hideosity or in their silly revival, the pastel ruffled shirts that were briefly popular. My pink shirt is not like that. Some of us have seen bright red or blue or purple tuxedo shirts, maybe ruffled, maybe pleated. I do not think my pink shirt is like that, either. Because I think those bright, color saturated shirts are pretty hideous, or as one old girlfriend used to say, HEINOUS.

Some of us have seen pleated tartan tuxedo/ dress shirts. Some of us may even have worn them. It's a look, but it is hardly traditional or correct.

And nearly all of us have seen, in a James Bond film, or somewhere, the guy who wears clothes that others wear in white, only he wears them in black. Usually, he is rich and charismatic, but neither trustworthy nor entirely respectable. I expect such a character might eventually appear wearing more or less traditional Highland Dress, with a black shirt and jabot. He is either the Evil Twin or the One Who Was Unfairly Shunned, back now to get his revenge. Or he is some ill-informed adolescent.

Back briefly to my not-entirely correct pink shirt. I can see some guy somewhere, with just a little more money and nerve than I have, wearing a pale blue or pale pink dress shirt with a matching jabot. He would not look evil and he would not look bad, but he would probably irk many of the people who saw him, which might well be his intention. You could argue, though, that blue or pink oxford cloth is still a shade of white, in that it contains some white.

And Liam, as for documentation, if you look at all of the google images of jabots, they fall into two big categories: 1) Men - all of whom are wearing white ( or cream ) ones and 2) Everything else, which includes some black edged ones worn by women in a very different context.

So, yeah, what Father Bill Said. They do not exist. And if they do, they shouldn't.



* well past any rebellious stage in my life. I wear it rarely, when I want to be just barely, respectably different. Sort of like my hypothetical pastel jabot wearer- you know, Traditional, but not conservative- not quite dramatic or rule-breaking, or theatrical in that Prince John black -on- black way, just that little bit different

[Father Bill]

MacLowlife, I used to be an English teacher. You get an "A+" for well humoured sarcasm.

Bill+