Modern Pipe Band Drums

[eagle43172]

I watched the Wee Willie Winkie clip Panache put on Bonnie Heather's Shirley Temple thread earlier today and I had to ask...what happened to the husky, throaty rope tension sound that military bands had. Todays pipe bands play snares tensioned tighter than a ballerina's hair and to me the sound from the old days, vis the clip is so much better.
I'm no musician, nor a music historian, so maybe some of the rabble can enlighten me.

Am I alone in thinking this way? Looking forward to hearing your opinions/answers.
Dave

[EagleJCS]

I've had this discussion with the lead tip of the Louisville Pipe Band, and his thinking is that the drum tension started to go up when the pipes started tuning sharper. (He started out with rope tension drums in the late 70's). They also needed the additional tension to bring forth the volume against the sharper pipes section. Pipes started tuning sharper because the sharper instrument sounds just a bit 'brighter' and therefore more pleasing. Now some believe we're approaching dog whistle stage and need to start bringing the pitch back down.

In the late 90's, drummers started going to kevlar heads in order to accommodate the additional tension. (It sounds like a shot from a .22 when one of those heads pops). That also adds to the volume and 'brightness' of the drums.

Or so I've been told...

[Steve Ashton]

A question that is sort of a corollary to the drum tuning.

If pipes and drums today are tuned sharper, and played up in the soprano range, has anyone ever heard of pipes that were made to play or tuned down in a lower range?

Lower tones carry further and some people find the music in the lower ranges more melodic.

I don't want to say Tenor range because many male Tenors today are singing up in what was the female Contralto range.

What I mean is the male Tenor range you could hear prior to the 1980's

I personally find pipes today to be so high pitched that I would describe them as shrill. It actually hurts when I've been vending at a Highland Games all day.

I have totally lost my love of pipes from the extremely high pitched tones I hear today.

I actually think a set of Bass pipes would sound awesome.

[imrichmond]

Rope tension drums had mostly disappeared from pipe bands by the time I began piping in 1958. I can't recall encountering a single pipe band from that time that still used rope tension drums, in Ontario, at least. Some military bands may still have used them, but the 48th Highlanders and Toronto Scottish pipe bands, both top-grade bands at the time, certainly did not. In that era, pipes were tuning at approximately B flat or around 466-467 Hz. This is about the pitch heard on old bagpipe recordings. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the grade 1 band I played with aimed for a pitch of 472 Hz. This was pretty much standard among top competition bands at the time. Clearly, rope tension drums were replaced by modern snare drums long before pipes achieved anything like the higher pitches heard today.

I suspect that convenience had a lot to do with it. I used to know former military drummers who began on rope tension drums. According to them, replacing a drum head on such an instrument was quite a task. It required first soaking the new natural skin for hours so that it would shrink and become tight after it was mounted. It was also necessary to soak the tension ropes for the same reason. If the drums were played regularly, this had to be done at least a couple of times a year, because the skin heads would stretch and lose tension to the point where they had to be replaced. It is just easier to mount a synthetic drum head, which can be done in a few minutes. The modern snare drums are also smaller and lighter to carry than the old rope tension ones.

[BCAC]

Rope tension drums had mostly disappeared from pipe bands by the time I began piping in 1958. I can't recall encountering a single pipe band from that time that still used rope tension drums, in Ontario, at least. Some military bands may still have used them, but the 48th Highlanders and Toronto Scottish pipe bands, both top-grade bands at the time, certainly did not. In that era, pipes were tuning at approximately B flat or around 466-467 Hz. This is about the pitch heard on old bagpipe recordings. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the grade 1 band I played with aimed for a pitch of 472 Hz. This was pretty much standard among top competition bands at the time. Clearly, rope tension drums were replaced by modern snare drums long before pipes achieved anything like the higher pitches heard today.

I suspect that convenience had a lot to do with it. I used to know former military drummers who began on rope tension drums. According to them, replacing a drum head on such an instrument was quite a task. It required first soaking the new natural skin for hours so that it would shrink and become tight after it was mounted. It was also necessary to soak the tension ropes for the same reason. If the drums were played regularly, this had to be done at least a couple of times a year, because the skin heads would stretch and lose tension to the point where they had to be replaced. It is just easier to mount a synthetic drum head, which can be done in a few minutes. The modern snare drums are also smaller and lighter to carry than the old rope tension ones.

I'm amazed that you say that rope tension drums had mostly disappeared in 1958. I was a member of two bands in 1971, and both still had rope tension drums (both snare and tenor).

[KD Burke]

A question that is sort of a corollary to the drum tuning.

If pipes and drums today are tuned sharper, and played up in the soprano range, has anyone ever heard of pipes that were made to play or tuned down in a lower range?

At modern, standard, concert pitch "A" is 440 Hz. Modern pipe bands regularly tune "A" to 478 to 481 Hz. This is one reason pipes don't play well with other instuments.
Several makers offer chanters designed to pitch "A" at 466 Hz, or "Concert Bb" and a few offer "Concert A" chanters. They sound good!

I actually think a set of Bass pipes would sound awesome.

Unfortunately, a true BASS chanter would be so long, and have holes so widely spaced, as to be unplayable.

[OC Richard]

Yes the pitch of the pipes has been steadily rising for a long time.

Old chanters from c1900 are often pitched somewhat below modern Concert Bb (466). In the 19th century Glen offered chanters in different pitches, one at the then-current British orchestral standard of A=452 ("Old Philharmonic Pitch"; A=440 wasn't adopted in Britain until after 1900).

By WWII chanters had risen to around Concert Bb (466) and most were still being made at that pitch when I started piping in the mid-1970s. I played in pipe bands throughout the rapid rise in pitch from Concert Bb (466) to the current standard of 480 and beyond. Our pipe band is currently pitching between 482 and 484. Many of the top bands are even higher.

About drums, I've always thought that it would be awesome to put together a pipe band that used the drum section of an 18th century Fife & Drum band. Fife & Drum drumming is fantastic. The snare drums are huge and deep-sounding and the bass drum plays the same rudiments as the snares.

In pipe bands the snares have been getting tighter and higher but the bass deeper, and the bass played with huge soft things to get a whoooming diffuse sound.

Here's the fife & drum style of drumming, so exciting and syncopated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX8wxWXkaIo

Here are the massed pipes & drums of the 51st Highland Division in 1945. Note the pitch of the pipes, and of the drums

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poJBWQET4Hc

Here are The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards on their topselling album from 1972. At this time the pipes, as ordinarily played, are at Concert Bb (446) and can beautifully play along with brass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1QMQKuDaE

Here is what up-to-date pipe bands sound like, Field Marshal Montgomery in 2013. Note the enormous increase in the size of the bands, with 25-30 pipers, 10 or 12 snare drums, and a host of tenor drums in various pitches (the tonic, 5th, octave, and sometimes 3rd etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZPOusSAoQs

[Nathan]

Yes the pitch of the pipes has been steadily rising for a long time.

Old chanters from c1900 are often pitched somewhat below modern Concert Bb (466). In the 19th century Glen offered chanters in different pitches, one at the then-current British orchestral standard of A=452 ("Old Philharmonic Pitch"; A=440 wasn't adopted in Britain until after 1900).

By WWII chanters had risen to around Concert Bb (466) and most were still being made at that pitch when I started piping in the mid-1970s. I played in pipe bands throughout the rapid rise in pitch from Concert Bb (466) to the current standard of 480 and beyond. Our pipe band is currently pitching between 482 and 484. Many of the top bands are even higher.

About drums, I've always thought that it would be awesome to put together a pipe band that used the drum section of an 18th century Fife & Drum band. Fife & Drum drumming is fantastic. The snare drums are huge and deep-sounding and the bass drum plays the same rudiments as the snares.

In pipe bands the snares have been getting tighter and higher but the bass deeper, and the bass played with huge soft things to get a whoooming diffuse sound.

This is exactly right. Remember, Steve, we're only talking about a few hertz here and we haven't even climbed a full step or note (i.e. all the way to concert "B". Further, concert pitch wasn't standardized in Europe to 440 Hz until recently so we're not talking about moving from tenor to alto or soprano or anything that drastic. We're talking about tuning up a half step and change.

Since concert pitch wasn't standardized in the UK until after 1900, it's likely that Highland pipes, though written in the key of A, were never made en masse to modern concert pitch of A 440 Hz and old pipes were probably tuned somewhere closer to A on the rest of the Island at A 452, thus making the difference from then to now even more subtle.

I've heard Highland pipes that are tuned for A 440 Hz and many shuttle pipes and reel pipes are tuned this way to accommodate their use in ceilidh bands.

They don't sound all that different from competition pipes. They are slightly warmer and less bright, to be sure, but they are still basically the same animal as they always have been. If you're looking for more mellow pipes, a set of Scottish small pipes might be your thing as Highlands have always sounded comparatively bright and to those that don't enjoy them, "shrill".

Regarding drums:

The innovation of the kevlar snare drum head made big things happen in pipe drumming. They echo like gunshots across a parade square and put the glockenspiel band's snare drums to shame. The kevlar allows for a crisp, high tension head, which causes a swifter and more forceful rebound of your drumsticks. This has caused an explosion of amazingly complex rhythms on the snare drum in the second half of the 20th Century. Pipe drumming is better now than it ever was as a result of this innovation.

[OC Richard]

has anyone ever heard of pipes that were made to play or tuned down in a lower range?

I actually think a set of Bass pipes would sound awesome.

Of course! Bagpipes have always existed in a wide range of pitches. The average pitch of bagpipes, all countries taken into consideration, is somewhat lower than Highland pipes, but bagpipes exist an octave higher than the Highland pipes (the Breton Biniou) and over an octave and a half lower (the Grand Cornemuse of Central France).

Remember that bagpipes exploded in popularity in Europe during the Renaissance period, at a time when it was standard for instruments (shawms, recorders, sackbuts, what have you) to be played in same-instrument ensembles featuring various pitches bass, tenor, alto, soprano. Bagpipes were, and still are, played in that way, especially in France and in Spain (in France trios and quartets of pipes in three different pitches, in Spain with groups featuring a number of pipes in C and one bass pipe in low G).

To get a flavor of that sound, here are the old Cornish Doublepipes (an octave an a half lower than the Highland pipes) played with another English pipe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBaE546R9h8

Then there are traditions in which the standard bagpipe pitch is very low, for example the pipes of another sort of Highlanders, the people who live in the Rhodope Mountains of Bulgaria, who have their very own sort of bagpipe, the Kaba Gaida ('deep bagpipe'). It's sound is incredibly soulful and expresses the beauty of the mountains superbly. Here it is, played solo... just listen, and let the soul of the Rhodope Mountains come to you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elOkNCu9Zbs

It's common for the Kaba Gaida to be played in large groups, of pipes only. Here they are. The bass drones are amazing, the coolest drones on Earth in my opinion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVPKzsG_8fA

Closely related to the Bulgarian Kaba Gaida is the Macedonian Gaida. It's higher pitched, but still over an octave lower than the Highland pipes. Here you can hear it very traditionally at the start, in its typical role of playing with a drummer for dancing. But then! It's brilliantly used in a modern pop arrangement that blends the old and the new. (Moral of the story: get drunk with the Father and marry the beautiful daughter?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fXoiGB3mAI

[Highlander31]

Yes the pitch of the pipes has been steadily rising for a long time.

Old chanters from c1900 are often pitched somewhat below modern Concert Bb (466). In the 19th century Glen offered chanters in different pitches, one at the then-current British orchestral standard of A=452 ("Old Philharmonic Pitch"; A=440 wasn't adopted in Britain until after 1900).

By WWII chanters had risen to around Concert Bb (466) and most were still being made at that pitch when I started piping in the mid-1970s. I played in pipe bands throughout the rapid rise in pitch from Concert Bb (466) to the current standard of 480 and beyond. Our pipe band is currently pitching between 482 and 484. Many of the top bands are even higher.

About drums, I've always thought that it would be awesome to put together a pipe band that used the drum section of an 18th century Fife & Drum band. Fife & Drum drumming is fantastic. The snare drums are huge and deep-sounding and the bass drum plays the same rudiments as the snares.

In pipe bands the snares have been getting tighter and higher but the bass deeper, and the bass played with huge soft things to get a whoooming diffuse sound.

Here's the fife & drum style of drumming, so exciting and syncopated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX8wxWXkaIo

Here are the massed pipes & drums of the 51st Highland Division in 1945. Note the pitch of the pipes, and of the drums

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poJBWQET4Hc

Here are The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards on their topselling album from 1972. At this time the pipes, as ordinarily played, are at Concert Bb (446) and can beautifully play along with brass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg1QMQKuDaE

Here is what up-to-date pipe bands sound like, Field Marshal Montgomery in 2013. Note the enormous increase in the size of the bands, with 25-30 pipers, 10 or 12 snare drums, and a host of tenor drums in various pitches (the tonic, 5th, octave, and sometimes 3rd etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZPOusSAoQs

Richard, to my ears, the Concert Bb (446) is preferable to today's higher pitched pipes.
I have to agree with Steve, the higher pitched pipes give me a headache.